Ghost taking baby steps

[Azzork]

I just want to start rebuilding things and I am trying to do this by trying to show her my love as her husband

Sometimes, I feel like I'm wasting my breath by typing to you, buddy. This was your 1000th post, and most of it looks just like your 1st.

Look at the sentence I pulled out. There are so many things wrong with this. I'm starting to accept that nothing I can type to you will get you to change your thinking. I know I'm not the only one frustrated by this block that you seem to have.

As I am out of constructive things to say, I will continue to read your posts, but I'm not sure I will post unless I feel I have something new to add.

I really am rooting for you, ATP.

[ATPeace]

Azzork I will try and see if I can answer some of my own questions please can tell me if I am on the right lines

Sandi

On a previous post you talked about respect

You Said respect does not require love and that a woman first has to respect her h as a Man before she can desire him as her husband

And you said that respect does not require love I am wondering how she will have respect for me how can this happen ???

So I understand that I need to be a great father to my children and I have already stepped up in this department considerably and I am doing so much more with my children than I used to do ...I realise this makes me a better parent .I have to also pull my weight with regard to the house chores not because this was something that my wife complained about during our marriage but because it is the right thing to do in an equal relationship amd I will continue to work on these two areas to become a better father This s great

So How do I gain her respect back ?
If everything starts with this ok I am going to take a stab at this myself you do this by not trying to get her respect back by backing off giving her the divorce that she wants let her go leave the marriage leave the house go and start a new life with out you you do not try to win her back ...you do this by stopping chasing after her ......is this right ??

I do see that my W has gone has left our M I just want to start rebuilding things and I am trying to do this by trying to show her my love as her husband ghost give up trying to get her back give up in the life that you had do things for you and for your children if she wants back in then she will come to you....you cannot go to her I remember reading somewhere that I would have to do things differently I cannot remember exactly what or how I do not know the answer to this

I still think that it is better to be still in the same house ...I see being in separate houses I would not see her hardly at all so i see this as us getting further apart No ghost you are better to be in separate houses you need to let your W go let her divorce you if she wants there is nothing you can do to change her mind I know you think that you can work on it or you can do or say something that may help but the bottom line is you cannot

[sandi2]

I will try to respond to your post. Just bear in mind that you are touching various issues in your posts, so please don't confuse the answers.
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You Said respect does not require love and that a woman first has to respect her h as a Man before she can desire him as her husband

Do you believe there is a difference in love and respect? To respect another person means you hold admiration for them based on something you see well done in them. Perhaps you respect a person's wisdom. Maybe another person's character seems outstanding. You may respect certain leaders based on their courage or ability to influence others to follow. You can respect a man who has worked hard to provide for his family; a woman for being an exceptional mother; an author for bringing life to written words. We could give a thousand examples, and there would be one common thread that would link them. They have some ability, trait, or character that you admire. You can admire a firefighter who goes into a burning building to save a person's life. You respect him for his courage and willingness to risk his own life to save another life. However, no love is required in order to appreciate or admire this person.

Do you know who are the hardest to win their respect for us? The ones closest to us. B/c they see us at our bad times, ugly times, stupid times, selfish times, on & on........they see everything and know the real us. I tell you this, b/c getting respect from your W may not be the easiest thing you've ever tried, however, it is very possible. Just do not confuse respect and love. Love is a strong emotion that comes from out heart. It is affectionate interest and well being for another person. And in M, it is an intense desire to be emotionally and physically intimate with the other person.

Now, moving on to a woman who has respect for her H. The more she admires about him, the easier it will be to love him. B/c women are wired to respect a man before she can desires him for her H, once she really feels admiration for him......she would have a tough time not feeling the desire quickly following the respect. It just goes hand in hand for women. Obviously, your W must have respected you before she agreed to M you. Did you ever know what it was about you that she admired? Think about the man you were before M. What were you like back then? And, I really need you to answer this question, please.

So I understand that I need to be a great father to my children and I have already stepped up in this department considerably and I am doing so much more with my children than I used to do ...I realise this makes me a better parent .

Yes, being a wonderful father to her children, is important to women. Remember, it is more than doing activities with them. It is parental teaching, training, and raising. It is about influencing a young life to have a healthy self esteem, good character traits, high standards, etc. It's you trying to give them what they will need to be a happy, well rounded human being. It is teaching Your sons how to be a man. (Could a lot more, but these are just a very few highlights).

ok I am going to take a stab at this myself you do this by not trying to get her respect back by backing off giving her the divorce that she wants let her go leave the marriage leave the house go and start a new life with out you you do not try to win her back ...you do this by stopping chasing after her ......is this right

Could you restate that first sentence again?

Can you give an example of her respecting you.....that has nothing to do with a divorce?

[ATPeace]

I will try to respond to your post. Just bear in mind that you are touching various issues in your posts, so please don't confuse the answers.
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You Said respect does not require love and that a woman first has to respect her h as a Man before she can desire him as her husband

Do you believe there is a difference in love and respect? Yes there is a very big difference and I can see this To respect another person means you hold admiration for them based on something you see well done in them. Perhaps you respect a person's wisdom. Maybe another person's character seems outstanding. You may respect certain leaders based on their courage or ability to influence others to follow. You can respect a man who has worked hard to provide for his family; a woman for being an exceptional mother; an author for bringing life to written words. We could give a thousand examples, and there would be one common thread that would link them. They have some ability, trait, or character that you admire. You can admire a firefighter who goes into a burning building to save a person's life. You respect him for his courage and willingness to risk his own life to save another life. However, no love is required in order to appreciate or admire this person.

Do you know who are the hardest to win their respect for us? The ones closest to us. B/c they see us at our bad times, ugly times, stupid times, selfish times, on & on........they see everything and know the real us. I tell you this, b/c getting respect from your W may not be the easiest thing you've ever tried, however, it is very possible. Just do not confuse respect and love. Love is a strong emotion that comes from out heart. It is affectionate interest and well being for another person. And in M, it is an intense desire to be emotionally and physically intimate with the other person.

Now, moving on to a woman who has respect for her H. The more she admires about him, the easier it will be to love him. B/c women are wired to respect a man before she can desires him for her H, once she really feels admiration for him......she would have a tough time not feeling the desire quickly following the respect. It just goes hand in hand for women. Obviously, your W must have respected you before she agreed to M you. Did you ever know what it was about you that she admired? Think about the man you were before M. What were you like back then? And, I really need you to answer this question, please. Sandi Ok I met my wife when she was just 15 and she had come from a home where she had been abused by her step mum she came from a family where she had very little money and no love from her mum or step mum, I came along and I was from a wealthy family and I showed my love to her . Her friends were just 15 and she was going out with a guy with a nice car so I guess to some degree she felt important and above her friends who were not dating or if they were they had boyfriends the same age ....she had love from me and we grew together being with me the abuse from her step mum stopped. She had security and we had each other. To throw a problem in here she has lost all respect for me I realise this I have spoken bad to my son and she feels that I have become her abuser....where she is now she has grown in to a strong self sufficient woman I have supported her and encouraged her with her career she is very good at her job she is great with our children and I really do not know how I am going to find a way back into her life

So I understand that I need to be a great father to my children and I have already stepped up in this department considerably and I am doing so much more with my children than I used to do ...I realise this makes me a better parent .

Yes, being a wonderful father to her children, is important to women. Remember, it is more than doing activities with them. It is parental teaching, training, and raising. It is about influencing a young life to have a healthy self esteem, good character traits, high standards, etc. It's you trying to give them what they will need to be a happy, well rounded human being. It is teaching Your sons how to be a man. (Could a lot more, but these are just a very few highlights).

ok I am going to take a stab at this myself you do this by not trying to get her respect back by backing off giving her the divorce that she wants let her go leave the marriage leave the house go and start a new life with out you you do not try to win her back ...you do this by stopping chasing after her ......is this right

Could you restate that first sentence again? She needs to feel respected and to be able to feel that she has respect for me is this what you mean ?

Can you give an example of her respecting you.....that has nothing to do with a divorce? Now can give you an example of her respecting me I really do not know she does not think I have been the best father I think she would believe that I would always keep her and our children safe ...is this respect I would now provide for them all and put their needs over mine?

.

[ATPeace]

Quiet day today been reading other people's posts and see it is about moving in and saving myself

We had a pipe burst over the holiday and we have no hot water she is ok to stay in a house with me and the kids with no hot water she could easily take herself off for a few days

We need to get a new shower and she talked today about why it would be a good idea for us to get an electric shower just in case something like this happens again like she is not making plans in her head to move out.

It just feels the longer we are apart the less chance that this will going to go the way I want it to go

It just feels strange that she is thinking about if some thing similar happens again then we will have a contingency plan


Need to find things to do to GAL
Ghost

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[rd500]

Hi Ghost. I see you at least trying to understand the DB way and it's understandable that you look for hope. The thing about the shower could be understood lots of different ways and your having expectations is not good because it could lead to more pain.

I'm going to give some examples of my sitch.

Today W is here. She started convo about our stairs being re carpeted and showed me an advert for a guy that does it

I COULD take this as W is planning to make the house nice to sell

I COULD take this as a positive that W is still interested in house and maybe by extension in coming home

Yesterday W text me to make sure that all was all ok All my kids have phones , why contact me ?

It COULD mean she's too lazy to contact each child

it COULD mean she wants to keep in contact with me

Monday W was bringing up lots of positives about our past together

It COULD mean she wants to share the memories with an EX

it COULD mean she misses those times and wants them back

Ghost , do you get what I'm saying ? It's possible to put a spin on anything the WAS says.

You can let go of hope and live your life for you and your kids accepting that FOR NOW the M is over OR you can grasp at every small scrap that W gives you

The choice is always yours , the people on here are showing you a path.

Accept what is because the reality is you have too

I've been with W for 25 years , 4 kids and W APPEARS to regret her choices BUT she is not prepared to work on her W has no money and cannot survive long term on her income BUT it's her choice. I have accepted that and live my life

Of course I wonder at some of the things she says but I don't linger on them because I have no way of knowing what they mean

Try and let go Ghost , even a small bit and try to make a new life for you

Take care mate. Rd

[sandi2]

So, let's back up to where you responded to my last post. Here is what I was wanting to know:

Did you ever know what it was about you that she admired? Think about the man you were before M. What were you like back then? And, I really need you to answer this question, please.

Your answer was all about her. The only thing you told me about yourself was that you came from a wealthy family and you showed her love. Were you a teenager when you met her? What type of personality did you have..........introvert or extrovert? What were some of your inner struggles? Did you have any guy friends? Were you well liked in school.......not b/c of your parents money, but for yourself? Were you pretty much given what you wanted, growing up? I know you've said your W is the only sexual partner you've had, but did you ever have a steady girlfriend?

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Maybe I am guilty of trying to analyze. I have seen that whenever anyone asks about your changes, you answer with things you are doing or maybe have stopped doing bad habits. I don't recall you changing or improving anything about the inner you. Outward change is good, but it's the mental/spiritual change or growth that will determine your peace and happiness. That is where the real you resides. That is the guy I would like to hear about.

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Now some questions about when you first got married. How old were you? How did your parents feel about you marrying this particular girl? Did your parents help you financially? Did you ever feel that you had to give your W material things, in order for her to stay with you?

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I know that's a lot of questions, but I hope you will answer.

[ATPeace]

RD thank you it is about hope and me not wanting to give up this hope

I worry about letting go of that hope and her realising this and then she moves us to the next stage or I could let go of this hope and I could move us to the next stage...I am not looking to divorce so the next stage for me is to GAL and do more things for myself I realise in doing ts she will see me going out and she will also go out more and so we will spiral apart from each other. I need to let go

It is my fear for not having her in my life that is holding me back and despite everything I know and understand my M is over and nothing will ever be the same again a small part of me thinks ...just how over is it .......we have moved to friend status and this is not what I want but I realise I cannot push for anything

I have had several stfu moments today where I have felt things have been going well and I wanted to say look can you not see how we are getting along surley it must be worth trying to work on this for the kids then I stfu as I know I have to.

RD I feel the point that I need to get to is selling the house and separating completely from her but then I feel everything really changes and I just do not feel ready ...will I ever be ready

Just have to go out pick u daughter Sandi I will reply later to your post
thank you

Ghost

[25yearsmlc]

Sandi thank you for your time ....I guess I did not want to call my W as over the two days I had got my boys to FaceTime my W a couple of times and I know I need to talk to her less

She did not msg me at all while I was away if she wanted to find something out she sent a msg to our son rather than to me ,,,,,Wp she is already very distant.

So you ask what can you help me with ok here is a question whilst I am in the house with my W I am finding the conversation beyeen us getting harder to find things to talk about do I work on building this up or should I try and distance myself

Fogg you are spot on it is the fear is there a way to address this

You know^^^ the answer. STFU. Why MUST you talk to her? You're not there to entertain her, there is no "need to talk"! In fact, you're not great at it. Your "needs" ooze out and are a form of manipulation and pressure.

You're there b/c you are the children's father and you live there, at least for now.

Stop believing that if you say exactly the right words in exactly the right order, that "it" will happen. I could've made the best legal arguments in the world when h and I were sep and I think I'd have "won" if I'd been in court. But h was deaf to my words.

My advice for you at this point?

PLEASE seek professional help asap. We are no substitute for IC.

There is no shame in seeing an IC. I sure did it when h and I were sep and it helped me a lot.
I wasted a year of our 2 year sep (yes, 2 years, so check your timeline before you mention how long and painful this all is and there are "no guarantees", etc. We know).

Also, I recently lost my mother, which was an enormous & unexpected loss. There is a gaping hole in my life. Our last child went off to college 2 weeks later, and we moved from a home I loved, to a town where I know 4 people. So the thing is,

OF COURSE, I'm talking to a T! (Why wouldn't I??) I thank God for these resources.

Grief & fear are closely linked, and you are feeling both right now, big time.

Look, You sound as if you are barely functioning, which isn't good for anyone. Plus, even when you are "With" your boys, you do not sound as if you're fully present.

Believe me, I've been there. Just see someone and call this week, even if you can't get in to see them for a bit.

CALL this week.

Just Knowing you're going to be able to talk to someone helps.

While you wait for the appointment, read the DB book again and again, till you really get that this is a PROCESS, not a fix or cure.

The secret to this, is that there is no secret. We work on all our r's in life.

As Sandi's wise Grandmother said, "you're never done working on things".

[25yearsmlc]

RD thank you it is about hope and me not wanting to give up this hope

I worry about letting go of that hope and her realising this and then she moves us to the next stage or I could let go of this hope and I could move us to the next stage...I am not looking to divorce so

^^^this is a circle of crazy making...just GET off the roller coaster you are making.

the next stage for me is to GAL and do more things for myself I realise in doing ts she will see me going out and she will also go out more and so we will spiral apart


You're so wildly inaccurate about your "take" on what MIGHT happen, it's baffling. You think what you are doing now is working great...wth?

How could GAL and becoming a happier more interesting LESS NEEDY man, hurt anyone, least of all you?

from each other. I need to let go

It is my fear for not having her in my life that is holding me back and despite everything I know and understand my M is over and nothing will ever be the same again a small part of me thinks ...just how over is it .......we have moved to friend status and this is not what I want but I realise I cannot push for anything

I have had several stfu moments today where I have felt things have been going well and I wanted to say look can you not see how we are getting along surley it must be worth trying to work on this for the kids then I stfu as I know I have to.

RD I feel the point that I need to get to is selling the house and separating completely from her but then I feel everything really changes and I just do not feel ready ...will I ever be ready

No, Not with your present approach. All I'm reading in your post is need and FEAR and fear based "Decision making" and going in circles.

Call the IC.

Just have to go out pick u daughter Sandi I will reply later to your post
thank you

Ghost