WW, My Addiction, Patience is HARD

[sandi2]

I used to make my H sound pretty bad when I talked to my mother. For me, it was self justification. Mothers may tend to side with their D's, when it comes to sticking with the M or leaving it, but don't know that to be a fact. Women get caught up in the emotional aspects, more than the men......I believe.

I could understand if your WW was telling her mom that she needed space, but to say she needs her privacy does not sound very good. A marriage should not have privacy, expect to go to the bathroom......and to buy presents for each other. I have always been one who needed a certain amount of space. If I am stuck with people around me 24/7 for a lengthy period of time.......I will go somewhere to be by myself. I just have to have it. If that is what she means by "privacy", I can understand.

You would know if she's always been the type to need her space. What is most telling about her need for "privacy" is the fact she doesn't want you having access to her phone. When a WW will not completely agree and cooperate with a transparency plan........you can just about mark it down to the fact she's hiding something. What other reason would she have to keep things "private" from her H?

I thoroughly understand, and support, your need for transparency. Just to be clear, however, you know that having a key logger on her computer should not come under the heading of transparency. Technically, it reveals to you what she types, etc., however, it is without her consent or knowledge, right? If you want to use the key logger, that's your choice.

The transparency we talk about on the board, and the one needed when the WW ends her A, should be an agreement from her and her willingness. After all, it is suppose to help her, as well as it helps you. If you don't have her agreement, then call it something else. I only say this in case a newcomer may read this and be confused about it.

I suspect most of her communication she doesn't want revealed, is by phone. That is why she's so protective over it. Does she sleep with it?

Christmastime is a hard season for many people, especially those who have lost a loved one. My prayers are for them, as well as for all of you who are going through such trying times.

[trumpet]

Yes, the keylogger isn't a great thing - I'll probably pull it off of her PC tonight, as I have access to the accounts I needed.

What about I access the phone only when she's present?
Duh, never thought of that.
She'd need to be on board, but if she's really concerned about the client protected stuff, and she could get fired for leaking it, she could watch over my shoulder.

I'm just sick of the lying, and potential lying. It puts her in just a bad light. Should I say something about that?

But if she doesn't want to give it up, should I just let it be? I have a truly stubborn wife who will get her way hell or high water.

[sandi2]

My point was to not confuse it with what we refer to on this board as a "transparency plan". If she won't cooperate and you need to use a device to find out the truth, then that is your decision. I am not arguing or disagreeing. My point was merely to point out the difference in this technique and the one where both people are on the same page working together.

Okay?

[SciDad]

Trumpet,

The transparency plan my w agreed to was that I can check her phone with her present. No confidential info, but she claimed to feel "invaded" if she thought I was checking all the time. Although it's easier for me to agree since I know her passwords and can theoretically check things out whenever I want...

The key is that you can check it randomly. Makes it much harder to hide things if she doesn't know when you're going to look.

[trumpet]

Update time.

Had a good Christmas Eve with wife and my in-laws. I did hug my MIL and told her I love her, and at the same time I wanted to put a knife in her back for suggesting to her daughter that she should just divorce me... but of course the knife was in my mind.

W didn't want to come to my parent's, so it was just me and kids. Had a good time, but was a little different than past years, as I have an aunt who can't drive, and was in from Kenosha. She watched the kids open presents. We also had a family get-together from my mom's side - she was one of 15 kids, so there is always a reunion of sorts every Christmas. The funny thing is no one asked where my W was - so I think my mom must have told a few, who told a few, and everyone was scared to ask.

Family went out to eat on Sat. night. Had a good time. We keep having good days and good moments, but then I get all stupid and expect my W to take another step with me. Instead, the time together is all she can muster, and then wants time away... no R talk, no M talk, just small moments together.

We did have a bit of a dust-up on Sunday - the keylogger software got de-installed, but I did check a couple things on her PC, and found that OM had sent pictures on Christmas, and my wife responded. Sent me for a loop. W went to work on Sunday, avoiding me and the kids, and then put her phone on mute so we couldn't contact her. That put the spin a little faster as well - could she be talking with OM?

We had a talk last night, and she finally admitted that she's in love with OM still, but realizes that what she's done is very wrong, and at the same time can't stop the feelings she has, and has none for me. She's not really interested in working on us, as the feelings for me aren't there, and now that I know what I need in the relationship, she thinks she can't provide any of that, and doesn't want to change.

Change to me is doing the love language of our spouse, something both of us didn't do for 15 years. She has very little hope that we could learn healthy communication and respect. She's working out, and getting physically much stronger, to help her self-image, but really thinks that we're done, and admitted it to me.

She feels bad that she 'can't be the woman I want her to be', and that 15 years of crap is too much to overcome.

I'm not doing a great job of GAL, as I'm the moth, and my W is the flame. Every time we have opportunities to bond, spend time together, I want to make small steps forward, and then get frustrated. Frustration turns into words that express my disappointment, and then the spiral down for my W begins.

W still won't let me see her phone, but I did ask if looking over her shoulder would be ok, and not have unlimited access. Didn't say yes or no, but at least I offered a concession.

My addiction, and life without emotional fulfillment as well as sexual fulfillment has gotten much tougher with time, and why I'm pushing for forward movement in the R. It's been almost 60 days since the BD, and my stopping all porn and 'self gratification'. My body adjusts well when I can exercise, but my achilles injury stopped my 1/2 hour running sessions. I'm back to walking, and my weight didn't go up, so I'm happy, but want to get back to losing weight and feeling like the impulse to go back to old habits isn't there.

Detaching and GAL while separated would seem to be much easier than when we're in the same house.
I do get the opportunity to interact with W all the time, I just need to realize how precious every opportunity is and not waste them.

The discussion about New Year's Eve came up with the kids, and I said I'm headed out. W was very upset that I would spend New Years away from her and the kids, so there is something left in her that wants me, but she's fighting lots of inner demons right now, and just doesn't have a good way to cope.

I've mentioned that I'm not strong enough to deal with all this by myself, and I've asked for help, and continue to get help every week... so maybe she should see if someone can help her. I'm showing that I care, but not insisting she see a therapist, but I think it would really help her to understand what she's feeling. It took about a month of sessions for me to understand that my base feeling was HURT, not anger, and that the hurt ran deep, and that I'm in a vulnerable state, and bruise easily right now.

I think I've forgiven my wife... the hurt is still there, and will be there for a long while. I say I think, as I'm not 100% sure. If anyone can comment on this, that would be awesome. I like hearing different perspectives.

[JGuy]

Wow, you're right trumpet. We really are in very similar situations!!

I think you are doing a better job of not pushing R talk that I am. My W doesn't resist this kind of talk, but the result it seems to produce it that it pressures her at a time when she's just not in a place to make a favorable decision. So for different reasons, I'm in the same boat of having no choice but to back off.

I'm curious with the addiction whether you feel that masturbation without porn would be a morally acceptable way to "take care of yourself" when your W cannot. I know people have different views on this. I came to a decision for myself that it's about keeping my sexuality "sacred" by not leaking it with porn which can encourage a disassociation between the physical and emotional/spiritual aspects of sex. The goal here is to maintain a "sacredness" to one's sexuality which to me means that the physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects should all be balance with each other. This is the important thing for real sex with a real woman, as I see it. So, perhaps masturbation using only imagination can be a healthy, personal thing which can be done with self love in a way that has the emotional/spiritual aspects to it? Not sure if that really helps, but I thought I'd offer my perspective.

[trumpet]

JGuy,

Thanks for the reply. The jury is out on my talking about the R - we did have a lengthy discussion on Sunday, and she's still in love with the OM in her heart, but realizes it's wrong, and that it makes her really confused. I've come to realize R talk just isn't worth it unless SHE wants to talk, and wants to make the effort of NC. She's half-hearting it right now, which is fine, but not what I want. She knows this. I can't make a steer pee milk, so that horse-cow will have to just sit and wait while the fog clears, and my wife gets part of her brain back. She has tried to do things, but so far, a few have backfired, since she's still in the fog, and is treating me as a distant friend.

I'm being nice, but not overly talkative. I spend time with my kids, make them supper, offer to make a plate for my wife (she's not a great cook, I do most of the cooking now, as well as shopping). She usually declines. I used to push the issue that she needs to eat (she was bulimic when we got married, so she's never had great coping mechanisms in place for life)... but really, that's her business now.

Our counselor that we WERE going to didn't like that I mentioned that my wife fired me. But in a sense, she did. More of a lay-off, with a chance at full-time employment in the spring... ha!

The toughest feeling I've ever felt in life is my life partner telling me there was no love there. To be unloved, for any length of time, can put someone into the pits of despair, and could drive someone to suicide - I see that clearly now. My life is way more important to throw it away - my Christ told me so. My time here is a GIFT. My wife has given me that GIFT as well. I'm sure in the next 3 days I'll feel unloved again, and go to the dark place in my heart where I hurt. But I'll get over it, and get back to working on myself. Gut-wrenching stuff. The oscillations in my life are slowing, like an empty swing. I pray that no one pushes the swing any more, and I can focus on the work at hand - be the best dad I can be, continue to work on myself (weight, activities, sleep, demeanor), and work on bringing home some bacon for the family and for me.

It does get easier as time moves on, but I'm still easily bruised, and now know when I hurt, when something bothers me, I can vocalize it to others, and not just be angry.

[trumpet]

Well,

I figured something was up when my wife posts on FB about getting stuck getting out of the carriage lane this morning - she came back and got me, and with the help of neighbors, got her on the way.. her thank you was not to me, so I asked her if that was to slight me... which she said no, she unfriended me on FB.

In a nutshell - the Sunday talk, which I got things out of, and I thought made progress, to her was just a re-hash of old emotions, and put us back, WAY, WAY back.

She's calling the lawyer today. She's ready to file, and is looking for apartments. She told me to 'back the hell off' and the time she needs now is the time to get her head around that we won't be together next year.

One thing that might have helped to make that Sunday talk turn bad for her is that she started talking to OM again. The crazy train had slowed down, and made it back to the station, but it looks like it left again. She has absolutely no desire to remove OM from her life. He gives her safety and friendship, something she says I can't give her. He truly is a scumbag, as I think he made the contact, as his divorce is coming to a close, and probably needs the companionship. He was freeloading on his STBXW, and now had to find a new place to live.

She doesn't feel safe around me - physically, emotionally, or mentally. She cringes when I come home, and had a panic attack after our talk on Sunday. She's sick of it, sick of the 15 years that I 'mis-treated' her, and is done.

I told her I understand her viewpoint, but that the divorce might seem like the light at the end of the tunnel, but will lead to more heartbreak and disaster. She completely disagrees, and thinks that is the only light worth going for.

I told her I would 'back the hell' away, and for her to just give thoughts to how a divorce might not be the way to solve this.

For those who think they can fix the marriage by yourself - you can't. My repeated attempts to accelerate the relationship, once I got a morsel of hope and movement from the W side, has met with disaster. Instead of celebrating the little victory, I tried to win the war.

Such a sad day. A wake-up call for me. I'm truly hurting inside every day, and instead of dealing with the hurt, I try to hurt the wife, as a way to show her how much pain I'm in. All it does is push her away, and now it might be for good. Think about EVERY. WORD. YOU. SAY. She's just like a lawyer, since she works with them every day, and has uncanny recall. I've slipped up, and the more talking I do, the more chance I'm going to stick the foot in my mouth.

Ugh. Since WI is a no-fault state, should I just let her file?

[kyrie]

I'm so sorry for you trumpet. I just wanted to say to you: thank you. For being honest about the porn and for trying to deal with it. For talking about it openly and vulnerably. I know it must be a huge burden, but it really is helpful - for other men and for wives who have husbands who are in the midst of this addiction. I wish my husband would openly talk about or even just face what has hold over his soul.

[sandi2]

Ugh. Since WI is a no-fault state, should I just let her file?

What are you really saying here?