Thanks V. I will reread the detachment thread. I have read it but I have found I understand things better after a second or third pass through. I did have a 3 month NC stint.
I always like this scene from one of my favorite movies called Swingers.
Mike: Okay, so what if I don't want to give up on her? Rob: You don't call. Mike: But you said I don't call if I wanted to give up on her. Rob: Right. Mike: So I don't call either way? Rob: Right. Mike: So what's the difference? Rob: There is no difference right now. See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back. Mike: So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her? Rob: Right. Mike: Well that [censored]. Rob: Yeah, it [censored]. Mike: So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her? Rob: Right. Although probably more likely the opposite. Mike: What do you mean? Rob: I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her. Mike: Well what if she comes back first? Rob: Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget. Mike: There's the rub. Rob: There's the rub.
It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching.
Separating ourselves from the adverse effects of another person’s adiction or behaviour can be a means of detaching: this does not necessarily require physical separation.
Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively. Adiction is a family disease.
Living with the effects of someone else’s addiction is too devastating for most people to bear without help.
In our twelve step group we learn nothing we say or do can cause or stop someone else’s behaviour.
We are not responsible for another person’s disease, addiction, behaviour or recovery from it.
Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another’s behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves.
We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
WE LEARN:
Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people
Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of another’s recovery •
Not to do for others what they can do for themselves •
Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, be addicted or not addicted, or behave as we see fit. We allow the other their choices
Not to cover up for another’s mistakes or misdeeds
Not to create a crisis
Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
We let go of the outcome of our actions, we do that which is best for us whilst considering others.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 12/27/1506:38 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks for this post V. I have detached in one other situation in my life. My father is an alcoholic so that was tough for a while.
Detaching from my wife is very difficult as I am sure it is for anyone. I understand the concept but it is hard to implement. It is an emotional state rather than an action plan like no contact etc. I think no contact, in my case, still helps with detachment based on my passed experience. At least my wife helps me in the process and doesn't send many mixed signals. I'll have to find sandi's post on it as well.
I was pretty gung ho on pushing for the D come the first of the year but I guess I will give it a bit more time. I'll focus on myself and my goals for the new year for a bit. I guess I can look into selling the house without this being resolved. I can see if my wife's sudden change in her contact pattern was the result of the holidays or whether it is something different. I'll just sit back and observe for a bit.
A lot of things make sense if you are the child of an alcoholic, they absolutely do.
Have you read the Janet Woititz’s book, Adult Children Of Alcoholics?
She lists 13 characteristics of these children, commonalities that link. 10% of children live or have lived with at least one alcohol abusing parent and 3% are alcohol dependent. An unlucky half percent have two parents affected. (Figures from the FIX a website I subscribe to because of WH gambling addiction).
Truly shocking.
Damaging beyond belief, of course if the parent recovers and atones the irony is the children are more resilient not less.
Go figure.
The thirteen characteristics are 1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is. 2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end. 3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth. 4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy. 5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun. 6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously. 7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships. 8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control. 9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation. 10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people. 11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible. 12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved. 13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
So do any of these apply to you?
What impact has this had on your life?
Any impact on your R?
Did dad ever recover or atone?
As always you can say I don't want to answer.
For the lurker amoung us these characteristics are said to apply to children of all addicts and abused children, those from care and child carers of HIV parents. It is very tough to be child in these circumstances. So this book is absolutely wonderful for help us have insight into behaviour. I am using the list for my PTSD recovery. I am not a child of this but a recovering abuse target.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 12/28/1512:12 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks V... not exactly what I was expecting to get into but I think this has affected my relationship. I am also reading No More Mr Nice Guy and everything is getting tied together.
First, my dad was not abusive or stumbling around all the time. He is alcohol dependent or a functional alcoholic I would say. In NMMNG they talk of boys wanting to be different than their fathers in this situation. For my brother, that means no alcohol, he won't touch the stuff. For me, I think it means having a better relationship with my partner. My parents marriage stinks. There is no affection, my dad really neglected my mom, and my mom, inturn showed little affection back and it became a sad cycle. My wife even mentioned that this might be an issue for me and I kind of agree (she has witnessed their relationship since she was 15, she knows). I desperately want a deep emotional connection with my wife or future partner. I just have never witnessed it so I have to develop the knowledge on my own. I believe this is the root of the issue currently with my wife and the specific things she mentions as being the problems (lack of chemistry/ passion etc) are the symptoms.
It is just hard watching him basically kill himself. This is what I have detached from. I cannot control it, I cannot stop it.
I don't mind answering these questions...
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
The thirteen characteristics are 1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
maybe in some ways. I think my childhood was normal but I do not think my parents relationship was normal or healthy. That is what I grew up with and how I became wired. I want to change that. I do not want to be that way with my wife.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end. I don't think this describes me
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth. this is not me
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy. this is probably true. For my MBA, I took an objectivity course. Turns out my mental model is 'not being good enough' despite being very athletic, acing school and getting the highest marks in my reviews at work. I always think it is either undeserved or I could be better. I am sure this crept into my relationship particularly in the sex department. Low confidence there and my wife did not want to talk about it because it was uncomfortable for her and she thinks everything should just be natural.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
I don't think this is true of me
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
this is true though I am getting better at this.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
This is true. This is the one thing (I believe) my wife wants more than anything else. I need to figure out how to get to that level. I want it. My parents just do not have it.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
I don't think this is true of me (in general I am talking, things to do with WW I may overreact)
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
maybe true
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
no I don't feel that way
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
I am very responsible
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
yes true
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
I don't think so but maybe
Did dad ever recover or atone?
nope he is still going strong although he does *seem* to be drinking less now but maybe he just hides it better. It was bad 2-3 years ago. He had quadruple by pass about 8 months ago so he had to stop drinking for a while. I told him it was a great time to quit.. didn't matter
For the lurker amoung us these characteristics are said to apply to children of all addicts and abused children, those from care and child carers of HIV parents. It is very tough to be child in these circumstances. So this book is absolutely wonderful for help us have insight into behaviour. I am using the list for my PTSD recovery. I am not a child of this but a recovering abuse target.
V
I'll look into the book. I am learning a lot. I have the NMMNG and the 5 love languages to go but this one could be after that.
I really think my wife and I could have a fantastic future, but it would take a lot of work on both of our ends.
Happy new year db'rs!! Let's focus on making 2106 great! I can't wait for it. I am determined to make a better me this year. I have lot's of goals (I hate resolutions), maybe I'll list them out later.
I had a great night. Had lots of different options to choose from and think I picked the best one. It was fun but free from temptation, which was what I needed. The best part.... my wife hardly entered my head! New years eve is very significant for us going back to high school. Before we got married and we were 'off', I would usually text or call her new years eve and get no response. But I did not try to contact her last night. Everything just felt good.
I am still wrestling with what to do. One day I say just wait it out... the next day I say no it is time, this is ridic. Maybe she brings it up in the next few days. The start of the year is kind of a natural point for change. It would be a relief actually. If not, then maybe I can try the LR after the LR like Sandi mentioned.
Holidays are all over and they actually went better than expected for me mentally. I was scared of them. Thanksgiving turned out to be the worst, maybe because it was batting lead off?
Have tons of goals for 2016 physically, professionally and mentally. I am looking forward to crushing them all.
I've been reading other threads, particularly jguys and focusing on Zues responses since we are both kind of focused on the same thing at the moment (ie when is it time). One difference is I never talk to me wife so my emotions are pretty even keel. I guess I am just going with the status quo for now and I won't push the issue though it is annoying to be in this limbo state. Oh well... focus on me and try not to think about it.
So what does that mean? I have not heard from her since xmas (that burst of contact ended quickly!). I guess I am just back to no contact or at least not initiating contact. She did seem a bit annoyed by it in one of our exchanges around xmas when she said 'I feel like you have me blocked but keep in contact with everyone else'. She can contact me when ever she wants. So I guess that is the plan for now? Is there something different I should be doing? She has to bring up D sooner or later I would think.
I recommend it Gmum. That was my go to movie when my wife (BF/GF back then) did this the first time. I am sure you will be able to related to Mikey. :-)
