October 11

[Bfice3]

So, marriage counseling, yeah. Wife goes 30 minutes early. Apparently tells the counselor that she can't make herself love me. And that she wants to be done for 6 months. She wants me to act like she's not in my life for 6 months. Yet ironically she wants me to guarantee that I'll be civil with her in contact with the children. Yeah. Good times. Merry F'n Christmas.

[Bfice3]

Yeah, and you know, I should be glad because there's still a crack in the door. She's not closing the door, lol.

[Bfice3]

Alrighty then...what a weird night.

So, that marriage counseling session was completely awful. As soon I walked in I felt like something was wrong (and I admit that I pre-disposed to thinking that). My wife said that she isn't feeling anything more and wants me to start living as though she's not around at all. So, she is DBing me. I took it really really bad. The session just kept going downhill.

Then I got home and she called me. I messed up and asked her to come over. She agreed.

She came by and I got in the car and we talked. I listened to her complaining about the therapist. She said she went to him early because she didn't have an IC and she was hoping that he could give her some therapy because she wasn't feeling anymore love for me even after 2 1/2 months, and she wasn't sure how to proceed.

She said that it was the therapists idea to tell me tonight (the night before Christmas Eve) because he didn't like to keep secrets and that he felt that I would be able to suck it up for our kids and Christmas.

I told her about my IC therapist and how he admitted to being 9 years sober and then got drunk on Thanksgiving (like 3 weeks ago) and punched a dude in the face for touching his wife. Then she was going on and on about how all therapists suck, and that they don't know 'us' and that 'we' just have to fix all of this ourselves.

THEN...she...my wife...suggested that she and I just get together one day a week for an hour and talk about these things ourselves, and we can save $120 in the process!!!!

My head was on a swivel...I was like....what??!??!?!

So, calmly, very calmly, I said, yeah if you think thats a good idea, then yeah okay. And she went on to come up with the time...Sunday evenings because she hates that time and always wants to get out of the house anyways. And I was just like, yeah that works for me.

And then she came upstairs to my apartment and ate her dinner that she had with her, and we looked at old pictures I was given at my step-dad's funeral. And it was really crazy.

Afterwards, I walked her back down to the car. (At the end of the MC session our Christmas was basically just not even going to happen. I was too angry and couldn't be trusted to be in the house. I shouldn't spend the night. Maybe I wouldn't even go to mass. Maybe I show up 5am Christmas morning, maybe she brings the kids over after they open her presents at our house, and on and on...) But then, I was calm and we revisisted tomorrow. And the invitation is all back. I'm going to drop the kids off at noon (they have been with me for 4 days). Then we'll go to 4pm mass all together. Then I'll go back to the house for dinner and perhaps spend the night and wake up and do Christmas if all goes well! What a crazy crazy crazy night.

Now....

I know. Believe none of what you hear. And half of what you see. But this is a good thing. I'm accepting it as that. Nothing beyond now is promised and I know I'm still fully in DBing land. I have to GAL just like before and detach from her hard. But...maybe...if I'm lucky...when they get back from their trip to Louisiana, I might find myself meeting with my wife for an hour every week to talk. She was suggesting we each get therapy books and work on them together and it was just crazy. I know. Take it slow. SLow down. I'm still in that danger zone. She flat out told me, she thinks of me as an old friend, and she loves me, but only like a brother. I get that...and I'm not going to pursue (or at least try not to).

Anyway. I don't know guys. This was damndest night since probably my freshman year at Mardi Gras. Goodness gracious.

[sandi2]

Taking it slow means to not jump to conclusions, don't see her whims as a"sign", and don't set yourself up for disappointment.

[Bfice3]

Hello all, and Merry Christmas. Sitting here at my apartment alone. Figured I'd come on here and share in misery.

After our rollercoaster MC session, I went and did Christmas. Unknowingly (well I kinda knew it) I was on a real high after the way (I viewed it) my W saved our MC session.

I went to church an hour early and saved seats for the 5 of us. They showed up eventually. We went back to the house and had dinner all together. I was trying to focus primarily on the kids, and not think about my wife. I think I did okay. Not sure.

Kids all wanted to go to bed early and finally got everyone in bed around 9:30. She and I sat on the couch for about 30 minutes watching It's a Wonderful Life. And there I really started feeling so many feelings of desperately wanting to hold her. I resisted over and over trying to hold her hand or hug her or even mentioning it.

She showed me my bed in the spare room, and I stood there looking at her desperately hoping she would hug me. She said, "It looks like you want something from me. I'll hug you but its going to be a short one." And I shook my head no, and she immediately pulled back. I said goodnight and she went to her room.

I know she was watching tv after she went to her room. And I know she looked at facebook later that night, and again before she came down for presents.

When we were sitting on the couch watching tv I told her about how I asked our D(15) how she was doing and she replied, "I just wish you guys could work this all out." And my W replied by saying, "We might"

I cried myself to sleep.

Woke up with a modestly renewed faith in DBing. Got dressed and packed up my stuff and put it all out in the car. I had brought a card for the W. During our MC session I had this 'homework' I was supposed to do from the previous session. I was supposed to write down my ideal life and daily routine. I did, and read it out loud, and then got the news she wanted me to live for 6 months without contact and I tore it up in pieces in the session. Then after our talk, I spent about an hour taping the papers all back together. I had intended on giving them to her in the Christmas card. But I realized last night that would be a mistake. So, I didn't. I simply signed her card. (And it was a non-emotional card, nothing lovey.)

I gave her $1.50 pack of thin mints from Wal-mart. She 'and the kids' got me some 'flip-belt' fanny pack looking thing from Brookstone.

Watched the kids open their presents. Tried to smile and laugh. Then after about an hour, I hugged the kids goodbye and left.

Cried all the way home. Layed on the couch and cried. But, I got up. I've got to get up. My life has to go on, right?

I don't know if this is going to work out. Maybe its best if it doesn't. Its so hard for me to see how I'll be happier, but clearly I wasn't happy with her before. Its just damn this pain.

Anyway...the come back from Louisiana on Jan 2. I plan on no initial contact from me for that whole duration.

Also, I realized I need to create a set of boundaries for myself.

Here's a trial run at a couple I was thinking of:

1.) I don't like texting as a means of communication and thats primarily how she wants to communicate. I will respond to texts with short messages, but I'm going to wait at least 1 hour before ever responding to her texts.

2.) If she calls me, I will answer the phone every other time. Then call her back after at least 1 hour.

3.) Get rid of facebook app on my phone, and stop looking to see when she last logged in to facebook on my computer.

4.) Practice learning how to detach with love. When I do see, which will be rarely, I want to be friendly and happy, but show no signs of neediness or longing, and a willingness to leave without remorse.

5.) Practice talking happily about myself. I've been learning recently that when I speak about myself I do it often with negative overtones, and I'd like to stop doing that.

Okay...so maybe these are more like guidelines/boundaries combined, lol.

I don't know. Thank you DB forum for providing a place for me to vent. I feel a small bit better now.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[sandi2]

Here is a good description defining detachment. I hope you'll read it through.


Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

[Bfice3]

Sandi,

Thank you for placing this here for me to read.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

I know I'm not here yet, really not even close. Well, I am okay when I'm alone. The past few weeks, when my kids are with me, I've started having this phantom pain in my abdomen constantly. And when I get with my wife, well, I start off okay, but then after some time it all goes kablooey. Though...I do think the length of time I'm doing 'okay' has gotten longer.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

This, I understand. Its just the practice of being able to do this that I'm not good at.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

I haven't had to worry about this one yet. But I can see how it will easily bring me crashing down.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)

This right here. All of this. It's not indifference. It's not pulling back out of spite. It is staying grounded in my own head, and not being affected by her...for my own sake.

I mean, I get it. I understand the concept, and the words. But again, the act, the practice, the actual doing of this...that's just...its so foreign to me. And strangely, I kind of thought of myself as independent. I wish there was a video of someone acting in a detached manner in various conversational situations.

I am learning not to yell or raise my voice. To remain calm, and speak softly. So, I think thats a step in the right direction. But as for faking it till I make it, I think I'm going to have to over-correct some early on. In other words, I shouldn't be indifferent, but I may need to act indifferent or think I'm indifferent so that I can get to the happy balanced place. What do you think?

Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself

A lot to work on here.


On part II, a lot of work for me in there also. I don't know. It's so weird. This whole things makes me feel like a failure. My self-identity is very miniscule and fragile and easily crushed. I know that this is going to take time, for me and her. I feel bad for our kids, ya know, they didn't ask for this.

I am growing. I can feel it. I don't know if its enough for her, and I suppose the point is, it shouldn't matter, the question should be, is it enough for me? I struggle too because I think I have set my goals for myself too high, almost unattainably high.

Learning how to accept myself, as I am, without beating myself up for failing at something, then picking myself right back up and going at it again, is something I truly need.

Anyway...I think I'm rambling now or something.

Thank you again Sandi, and I hope you had a great Christmas!

[Bfice3]

Can I just start lying and telling people that I see that I'm doing fine and everything is going to be okay? I'm so sick of being in pain and acting like my life is in shambles...

[Azzork]

Yes. The sooner you do that and act the way, the sooner you will BE ok.

[pinn]

I think it does help do have that positive attitude. Every where we go, we are asked "how are you"... I say... I couldn't be better, life is good... or fantastic. A little lame but it actually does put me in that mind frame.