Great points, both of you. I need talk like this - I tend to lose myself in a whirlwind of thoughts until I don't know which end is up anymore.
As far as shifting blame on the OW, I have to admit that's all on me. I don't believe H has ever once even suggested that it was anyone's fault but his own. The tendency to lay any blame on her has come exclusively from me, and I don't have an delusions that she was a predator and "seduced" him, necessarily; from all I gather, it was all him, at the start anyway. I guess my need to lay blame on her is because I become outraged at his continual defending of her. I am mostly just disgusted that there are women who have no problem whatsoever getting involved with a married man. Early on he had the gall to talk about how loyal and what a "good person" she is. I suppose it just planted the seeds of my obsession to show him what an idiot he was being because she absolutely did play him for a fool and was generally a horrible person.
But whatever, as you said, she's nothing.
As for me, I need to work harder at GAL. I could write another book on that, but basically I'm not as good at it as I need to be. I'm a rather introverted person and before all this happened, I was pretty satisfied with my general GALness. I go to the gym regularly, I had lost over 30 lbs in the last couple of years (now over 50 lbs. - infidelity is unfortunately one of the best diets ever). I have good friends with whom I socialized on a semi-regular basis - part of a recipe group, regularly get together with a close-knit group of friends, etc. For me, that's all the GAL I wanted or required as I'm actually quite a homebody and it takes some effort for me to want to go socialize endlessly.
The "book" on this would be that in this way, H and I are very different. We did a personality test online (very informative!!) and it showed how important large groups of friends and acquaintances are to him, whereas I am generally happy with a smaller group of close friends. With him, though, we grew apart over the years because he liked to go out with his work friends (early on it was innocent, but still troubling that he liked to maintain a bit of a separate social life), and then as his job grew more stressful to the point of breaking him these past few years, he began a downward spiral of going to the bar after work with work friends, getting hammered, and essentially living a second partial life as a single person, since I was left in the suburbs. Thus allowing rich and fertile soil for screwing up big time and allowing affairs to develop. He played with fire.
But back to me, I reluctantly admit I know I need to do GAL much better. I have to admit, though, that I resent that I now have to jump through hoops and basically change my personality by trying to fill my life with new things in an attempt to "prove" that I'm moving on and have a full and rich life with or without him. I thought I had that. We went out with friends, we went on vacations, I went to the gym, I met my friends, etc. I actually LIKE staying home most of the time and maybe cooking, or having friends over, or taking an online class or doing a hobby. I guess that's not good enough to make him think I'm interesting enough.
Sorry. Guess I'm having a bit of a tantrum. I really have no desire to go sign up for a class or take up yoga in addition to my gym, or join random new groups so I can look like I'm doing something. But I guess that mentality helped land me here, so....
I'll keep looking for GAL things that I will hopefully enjoy.
Edit: Wanted to add that the point made about the fact he doesn't TRULY believe he would ever really lose me is spot on. That used to be true. Unfortunately, it's not anymore. Every day I think more and more about what it would be like to first be on my own for the first time in my life, and second, to maybe find someone some day who valued me, maybe even adored me, who would want to beat a guy up for looking at me funny rather than fantasizing about me having sex with other men, and who would look at my love and devotion to him as an asset instead of feeling that made me a boring "sure thing". I'm not sure at all that he won't end up losing me for good.
As far as regaining your integrity, YOU aren't the one who lost it. You have been a faithful spouse. Yes, some poor behaviors and thoughts based on very human reactions and temporary insanity. That is over. You are bouncing back now. You hold your head up high and do what is right for you. Do NOT contact OW. (I have those thoughts too) .
Do not snoop. Do not beg, or cry, or talk R with him. Do something for yourself. Go meet some friends for lunch, join a book club, whatever you need to do to get out of the house, stop looking at him or waiting on a signal from him that things are ok. Respect yourself. Post here, and post a lot. You will get through this. And, there is a lot of hope in your situation from my perspective.
Thanks, Fo.2 - I recently read something very similar a few days ago and it really helped me. Something about dealing with those feelings of losing your dignity in the face of your spouse's affair, and the point was made, just as you said, that it's not the betrayed spouse that loses their dignity, it's the spouse who is having/had the affair. That is a very helpful thought for me to remember.
And that's exactly what I need to do (or stop doing) - I'm done looking for "evidence". Yes, on the one hand it alerted me to the fact that the lying continued but I felt like scum for doing it. That's not the kind of person I am - my heart was pounding out of my chest because I was going against my own values. I don't want to be that kind of a person.
But he has shown me repeatedly that he is absolutely not trustworthy. So rather than snooping OR blindly believing him, I think I have to operate from the viewpoint that he is probably still lying, or at the very least he certainly hasn't regained my trust and won't for a very, very long time.
I understand what was said about DB not being a set of tactics so much as it is a way of conducting your life with dignity and integrity. I guess if I looked back and wondered if I would accept this kind of bad behavior from someone I was dating, I'd just step back and be gone and it would be on HIM to prove he was worthy. I don't quite know how to do that now after 22 years of marriage and two kids, but I want to figure it out. I deserve so much better than this.
Lisa, for me, it isn't the act of snooping that is degrading. It is the fact that I can be reassured by doing it? That my H has so little respect for me or our marriage that I am looking for receipts, texts, etc. He deserves to be snooped on. IMO he lost all rights to privacy. But for me anyway, I feel degraded that its even a possibility that there is evidence to find. That my security and mental well being can be bought off so easily as him leaving his phone out unattended? I don't know if I am expressing this correctly. Its not the snooping. It's the fact that he put me in the position of needing this reassurance so desperately. I did snoop in the beginning. I refuse to now. I would just rather not trust him. Maybe I am messed up. You are getting advice from someone who most likely will end up divorced, so take it for what it is worth. But I don't not snoop because it is wrong, I don't snoop because I can't be bought off that easily.
Great points, both of you. I need talk like this - I tend to lose myself in a whirlwind of thoughts until I don't know which end is up anymore.
As far as shifting blame on the OW, I have to admit that's all on me. I don't believe H has ever once even suggested that it was anyone's fault but his own. The tendency to lay any blame on her has come exclusively from me, and I don't have an delusions that she was a predator and "seduced" him, necessarily; from all I gather, it was all him, at the start anyway. I guess my need to lay blame on her is because I become outraged at his continual defending of her. I am mostly just disgusted that there are women who have no problem whatsoever getting involved with a married man. Early on he had the gall to talk about how loyal and what a "good person" she is. I suppose it just planted the seeds of my obsession to show him what an idiot he was being because she absolutely did play him for a fool and was generally a horrible person.
But whatever, as you said, she's nothing.
Ok, I misunderstood. He may have already been trying to hide a potential or active A by putting the loyalty thing in your ear. Make her a person you would not guess.
Quote:
As for me, I need to work harder at GAL. I could write another book on that, but basically I'm not as good at it as I need to be. I'm a rather introverted person and before all this happened, I was pretty satisfied with my general GALness. I go to the gym regularly, I had lost over 30 lbs in the last couple of years (now over 50 lbs. - infidelity is unfortunately one of the best diets ever). I have good friends with whom I socialized on a semi-regular basis - part of a recipe group, regularly get together with a close-knit group of friends, etc. For me, that's all the GAL I wanted or required as I'm actually quite a homebody and it takes some effort for me to want to go socialize endlessly.
But back to me, I reluctantly admit I know I need to do GAL much better. I have to admit, though, that I resent that I now have to jump through hoops and basically change my personality by trying to fill my life with new things in an attempt to "prove" that I'm moving on and have a full and rich life with or without him. I thought I had that. We went out with friends, we went on vacations, I went to the gym, I met my friends, etc. I actually LIKE staying home most of the time and maybe cooking, or having friends over, or taking an online class or doing a hobby. I guess that's not good enough to make him think I'm interesting enough.
Sorry. Guess I'm having a bit of a tantrum. I really have no desire to go sign up for a class or take up yoga in addition to my gym, or join random new groups so I can look like I'm doing something. But I guess that mentality helped land me here, so....
I am worried you are missing the point with GAL. It is nothing to do with changing your personality. Quite the opposite. It is about doing things to focus on you and your happiness. It is about rediscovering YOURSELF and what YOU are passionate about. Like many of us on here, throughout your marriage, you may have lost sight of Lisa and forgot that you need to continually work on you and your own growth. How have you changed from the person that your H first married?
I know that I certainly had lost my spark and I am slowly rediscoverying the person I want to be. I had turned into a very grumpy and dumpy person. Looking back, I wouldn't want to be with me either. Maybe all of your energy has gone to taking care of the house, your kids, work, your H, etc. The goal of this is to get you to the person you want to be regardless if it is with your H or someone else. It is about getting yourself to a place that you will be ok if you and your H do not R. GAL is also about keeping busy so you are not obsessing so much about H, OW, or R. This is why this should be your focus. Yes, in the process your H might see someone he is reattracted to, but that is just a bonus and not the main goal.
Also, GAL can be much more than going to Meetups and the gym. I am by nature an introvert too. I bought adult coloring books (great stress reliever), read lots of books ( I highly recommend After the Affair, if you have not read it), done lots of cleaning, and went on long walks, etc.
Last edited by BT13; 12/24/1501:10 AM.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
I have been catching up on your situation and I am so sorry you are going through this. It is so traumatic and please, don't look back and beat yourself up for not correctly implementing DB techniques...hindsight is 20/20 and your responses and emotions were pretty normal considering the situation.
Look at the here and now. Truth be said, your husband was acting like a child that has never had to deal with real consequences for his actions. Just like raising children, you can't back down on your word or they will walk all over you. No matter how much we love them and want to give in, it does no one any good and then the bad behavior continues. Think long term right now.
im just one poster out there, but I think based on his history he has to hit rock bottom and truly be remorseful or else what's to say this does not just happen again when the next crazy pos comes along. Btw you have great insight when it comes to her.
Your anger, your yelling, your rage will not change him. He is the only one that can do that. The only power you have is to choose whether you want to stay and deal or leave. And that is a lot of power. You don't have to accept this. That's what detaching and NC is about.
I think right now you need to be extremely selfish. Do whatever it is that makes you happy. Do not even consider him (this is what I'm trying to do as well. I know easier said then done). Make it about you and your needs. Take your time. Give him time to fix it. You may or may not be around by the time he does.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Hi Lisa, I read your post yesterday & didn't manage to reply, but you have been on my mind since then. Gosh, you have been on the rollercoaster haven't you?? It's time to end the ride my friend. H will do what he will, OW will do what she will. However, what you do and how you respond is entirely down to you. This needn't wreck your life and your wellbeing - but I do think there needs to be a big focus shift here.
So, I think there is an issue of triangulation here. The worst dynamic to have happening. Your H doesn't want to lose you. He also finds it hard too give up on OW. My guess is that status quo may continue for some time and I think you are the one who needs to change this and take charge of yourself and your own life.
You already know that H has made promises that sounded (and probably were at that moment) sincere. However, he has gone straight back to being in touch with OW. Let me tell you that while he is in touch with her in any way, shape or form - it isn't possible for you guys to rebuild things. Given all that has happened, I would suggest you lay down a firm boundary for the situation. For example - unless he has been NC with OP for 3+ months, I'm not going to consider us being together again. Otherwise, I worry that you risk cycling around again (my sitch is pretty similar, so believe me I know!)
One of the big things I learned is that I don't want a R if those are the terms. That is not how I want a M to be - and if that's what's on offer, I'll pass thanks. I've also learned that me - and how I feel about myself - and how I have acted in all of this. These are the most important things. You say that you resent having to GAL and change yourself - but please know that these things are an act of self-love.
As for demonising OW. I get this too, and I have felt more anger at her than him I think. This is starting to shift for me. I think it hurts us so much to feel that anger at our spouse and it is easier for us to feel it towards OP. But I think the great betrayal has come from him and less from her. Yes, it's on her that she was willing to become involved with a married man. But, she hardly knows you (presumably) and who knows what she has told her about you (I'm unhappy in my M etc..)
You'll notice that virtually the whole of this post is focuses on you my friend. That's the part you get to control - 100%. So, I guess my big message is - it's time to change the dynamic here. Take yourself firmly off that point on the triangle and stop being willing to engage with him, whilst he continues to engage with her. Bring down a firm and absolute boundary like a steel trap and don't move on it. Be prepared to follow through. Implement a simple equation - contact with OP = no R, friendship or contact (other than essential business matters) with me.
I think this is the way to go - a form of LRT really - until or unless there is a significant and fundamental realisation from him - I will lose Lisa if I continue as I am. Don't look for any early changes, and do forge ahead with your own life. Accept him as gone for now. You don't want him on these terms anyway, so what do you have to lose. Make some new plans just for you - things you will enjoy with friends. Take a new class, work out, meditate, journal, punch pillows. Whatever you need to do to rebalance yourself. But there is a single message to him. That's enough for me - no more. I'm taking myself out of the equation here.
I hope this helps - and I post in the MLC area of the forum BTW...just in case you want to catch up on my sitch.
Take care Sweetie xx
Last edited by Sotto; 12/24/1507:21 AM.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
The point of GAL isn't to "prove" anything to your S. It's to prove it to yourself. It's to keep you from doing all of the things that undermine you. If you sit home by yourself in a quiet, dark house, you start doing and feeling all of the things you know you shouldn't.
In my opinion, there are several benefits to GAL. None of which have anything to do with your spouse. It truly is for you.
Azzork, thank you, that's a great way to put it - I do indeed start doing and feeling all the things I know I shouldn't when I sit around at home too long.
The last several days have been....okay. H continues to be, or at least appear, all in. I am still having a hard time. About 75% of the time I can behave somewhat normally, but the other 25% I am tormented by my thoughts. I struggle back and forth between wondering whether I am just letting my own pride mess with my head and keep me from moving forward, or whether I am a fool for even trying to believe him when I feel like he never really felt enough of a sense of "loss".
I have not checked on him since mid-week last week. He voluntarily showed me the phone bill (I didn't ask) online to show me that he hasn't been in touch with OW at all since that last phone conversation over two weeks ago. And yes, seeing as prior to this he was literally unable to go more than maybe a day or two without contacting her, I can see that this is significant. He has sworn that he will not be back in touch with her, that he recognizes what a terrible mistake she was, and that he wants to leave 2015 behind and make 2016 the year he proves himself to me and earns me back, that he aspires to be half the person he thinks I am.
In short, all stuff that three months ago I literally prayed he would tell me. I know that he is sincere, even if I were to find out he slipped in texting her or calling her once more, because I have come to see that he is an addict. The intelligent side of me knows this. It's the emotional side of me that becomes so angry and spiteful that he didn't do it "my way". That he insisted on weaning himself off of her rather than breaking things off cold turkey as I insisted on multiple times. I just wish I'd handled myself and the situation very differently from the beginning, so that I could feel more sure of myself now.
I just don't know how to get out of my own way now and move forward. The only conclusion I could come to is to remember that the solution or outcome is what is important, not necessarily the path that got me here. And the only way I will ever feel good and confident again 24/7 is to do exactly what is recommended here - the whole GAL thing. I need to work on myself so that I KNOW that I am a catch, that I have the ability to take care of myself if need be, and that I have options. Up until recently, I wanted to do that to prove those things to HIM. So that HE would know that I have the option of walking out if he ever betrays me like that again. But now I know that it has to be done for ME. I can't control what he may think, what he may believe. But if I KNOW that I've built myself into a person I'm proud of, confident in, and that I KNOW that if he doesn't treat me well and doesn't remain faithful from here on out, that I'll be capable of walking away if I decide to do so, and there may well be someone out there only too happy to treat me well.
This whole thing - while intensely painful - has helped take me off autopilot not just in my marriage, but in my life. I honestly never gave much thought to what I stood for, what my needs are, whether I was living a life of purpose, whether I was giving enough to my relationships, any of that. Now I've been forced to start combing through my life and I see where complacency, ignorance, and just lack of attention allowed so many things to stagnate or to grow "bacteria". I never thought much about infidelity, despite the fact that I was faithful for 21 years. Now I know that being faithful, and expecting the same, is one of my top requirements. I now know that all relationships take work and can't just be left to morph on their own or they may just morph into something you don't want. This goes for relationships with family and friends as well.
So backing up, I decided that whether I think I want to stay married or whether I decide in six months to leave after all, my action plan will be the same - work on myself. I am in no position to leave right now. And if my marriage can be saved, that's what I want. I just hope I can get out of my head and sidestep my pride and spiteful feelings enough to concentrate on what's really important.
To that end, are there any good GAL threads? I have tried searching, but GAL isn't a viable search term (too short) and I haven't found anything yet. I need ideas.
