I find myself back here after a few months partly to give a status update and partly to ask if I've made such a mess of things that there is simply nothing left to do but leave.
I will try to be brief, but it's not my specialty. In a nutshell, I guess what has happened is that I was partially successful in administering DB techniques, and as a result I now have a partially successful outcome. And I'm not sure I can live with it.
Not sure how to link to my original post back in September, but that weekend of September 11-13 was the worst since the initial bomb dropping on August 22nd. Unfortunately, I made every mistake in the book, and then some. But only some of the time. In between the mistakes, I was able to get myself together, try to DB and demonstrate some kind of backbone, and I would see some results.
Basically, that September weekend marked a turning point for H. He finally admitted to himself, after having essentially abandoned my son and me for the weekend for the first time to openly spend the weekend with the OW, that he was making an enormous mistake. He returned that Sunday evening to say that he wanted to work on our marriage, that he knew we have a huge connection and have a beautiful, solid foundation from which to rebuild. He had not, however, broken things off with her.
That weekend was also a turning point for me where I decided if that's who he was, I didn't care to try to hold onto him. By the time he came home, I was cool as a cucumber and let him do the talking. I waited to see if he had broken it off, and when he hadn't, I told him that I wanted to cancel our impending marriage counseling appointment as there was no marriage to work on while he was still involved with another woman. I also told him he was unwelcome in our bed or our bedroom for the same reason.
If I had stuck firmly to this attitude and continued tough love DBing, I'm sure I would be in a more stable place now.
Instead, he spent the next several days in the guest room and proceeded to have mild panic attacks (partly emotional, partly because he is claustrophobic and the room is small), coming into my room, begging my forgiveness, telling me my "tactic was very effective", etc. After about a week of this, where neither of us was getting much sleep because of this nonsense, and because our daughter was coming home from college for a visit (I stupidly kept hoping to shield our kids from any knowledge of this), I ended up allowing him back in our room.
Thus began a three month dance of stupidity that has lasted until this week. And probably is still going on, for all I know. Basically, the words of wisdom I learned here - believe none of what he says and only 50% of what he does - bore itself out to be absolutely true. He would say all the right things and even do most of the right things - only he just would not let go of the OW.
Their PA ended that weekend in September, I believe. However, they still continued to talk, text, and meet each other for coffee (they both work in NYC). In what I'm sure was a misguided attempt to set some boundaries, I told him to either end things or move out. However, I'd already "blown my wad", so to speak, on effective boundary setting by having allowed him back into our bedroom.
At least four different times, starting from September 22nd, I would draw the "line" and tell him to end it or leave, he would agree and end things with her, and then I'd find out later that he resumed talking to her again within 24-48 hours.
It was this nonsense that caused me to completely lose control of my emotions. I did far better when he was openly carrying on his affair in late August/early September and still saying that he thought he wanted to leave me and marry her. At that time, I felt some measure of control over myself as I was in survival mode. However, when he came home and said it was "over" and the imminent danger of him leaving me seemed over, my emotions just erupted. Then the continued back and forth of his actions, insisting it was over with her yet refusing to cut off all contact, absolutely ate away at my self-esteem and dignity.
In therapy, and to me privately, he would occasionally admit that he realized now that the affair was pure fantasy, that he absolutely and without question did NOT want a future with the OW, and that he desperately wanted to rebuild our marriage. However, he would say he was having difficulty cutting off contact with her. He realized the affair was a type of addiction, and that the idea of stopping cold turkey would panic him. What he wanted was to be allowed to wean himself off of her - in his words, he wanted to just let it "fade away".
This is when I lost it. For better or worse, I have fallen complete victim to my emotions and my intense rage over this situation. I have screamed at him. I have cried. For a couple who almost NEVER argued before this crisis, we fight weekly. I have caused a scene in more bars than I can count because we would attempt to go out for drinks, then the inhibitions would go down and I would be carrying on like a lunatic. Me, who never even sends a dish back in a restaurant. I don't recognize myself.
FOUR different times at almost exactly monthly intervals, I couldn't take it anymore and essentially would give an ultimatum - end it or leave until you can. He would text her or call her and actually break things off (I saw a couple of the texts) each time - four different times - only to go right back to contacting her a day later. It was positively maddening. He would tell me he had done it and, with tears in his eyes, tell me how much he loved me and that he was going to prove it to me, that he wanted to grow old with me. And every time, I would later learn that he was still talking to her. And I would go insane with rage at being lied to and "duped" into behaving with him in ways I never would have had I known he hadn't truly broken things off.
The second to last time this happened was the weekend before Thanksgiving. I simply couldn't face having a family holiday with a husband who was still communicating with his affair partner. I told him I was going to take the kids and spend Thanksgiving down south with my father. He sent the OW another "breakup text" which he shared with me in its entirety. I thought maybe, finally, it was done. I couldn't believe either one of them would have the nerve to continue to be in contact after that - that pride would keep them from doing so. How naive of me - people who have affair have no issue with propriety or decency or pride. They only have the narcissistic tendencies of wanting what they want.
Two weeks ago, just before my therapy appointment, I stupidly decided to look at our phone bill. I was sickened and enraged to see that even after that last text, the communication with her had resumed almost immediately. Had he been home, I think I might have punched him.
I went to my therapist (who is working with both of us, separately and together) and told her I think I had decided to leave him. That I realized he has become an incredibly accomplished liar, that he is weak and that I don't see him ever being able to give up the OW. I went home and consulted a divorce attorney just to make sure I knew everything I should know. I took a couple of days to decide what to do and then finally told him I wanted him to talk to a realtor as it was time to separate. I told him I was done.
That night he came home and told me how sorry he was and for what he had put me through. He swore up and down he would finally cease all communication with her and go with total transparency. I kept my distance and didn't buy it. The next morning (two Saturdays ago) he came home and told me he had talked to the OW and told her, finally, that he was in love with his wife, that he had disrespected me for far too long, and that all communication was to stop. He removed her contact info from his phone and he gave me the password to his phone and everything else. I was still cold to him. I told him that without question, he had used up his fair share of chances and then some, and that if there was even ONE more text or phone call, even for 30 seconds, he would be asked to leave permanently.
Well, a week went by. Something he said or did this past weekend prompted me to check the phone bill again. He had called her last Thursday night and they talked for over an hour.
Once again, I lost my mind. I called him downstairs and asked if he'd been in contact with her. He looked me in the eye and said "no". I led him to the computer screen and showed him the bill. He actually sat there squinting at it like a child who was stalling after being caught. I flipped out, screaming at the top of my lungs, told him to get the hell out, and he also flipped out with apologies, begging me, saying it was just ONE slip-up, blah, blah, blah. It's the closest I've come to actually wanting to harm another person.
I am heartsick at the person he apparently is and the person I've become. I don't want a husband I have to check up on - I have felt nauseous the few times I have done it. And I know I'm not supposed to, but if I hadn't I would have been blindly working toward forgiving him for something he hadn't even stopped doing.
Here's the thing, though. I know how bad it sounds, and I suppose maybe I will sound like a total idiot still giving him the benefit of the doubt, but my take on it is this. The physical affair ended in September, and soon thereafter their talks were downshifted into mundane crap - mostly work stuff (they used to work together until he was fired). She is a deeply messed up individual herself, according to him, and incredibly narcissistic. She doesn't openly pursue him, but she doesn't have to. She just sits there acting indifferent and he can't keep himself from wanting to talk to her. He has told me (and our therapist) emphatically that he does not love her. I think as sick as it sounds, my husband just has a mad crush on this woman. I think he could never quite believe that a woman as young and "hot" as her (she was 32, he is 52) was ever interested in him. They worked together, so proximity kept it hot and heavy despite the unbelievable incompatibilities (aside from age, there were a number of glaringly obvious reasons it was ridiculous and doomed from the start). There is absolutely no danger, even if I were to walk out the door or to kick him out, that he will ever be with her. She moved to the west coast a month ago for a new job, and he has a host of reasons he would never be with her. He recognizes that she is dysfunctional, self-involved, and that she likely used him in many ways.
But the fact remains, he is hung up on her. It's almost embarrassing. He's like a nerdy high school kid who chanced into a brief fling with a cheerleader and, despite being a ridiculous, dead end, relationship that is over, he just couldn't let it go.
So now I've got a husband who swears he wants to be with me, is even pouring through a marriage saving program to try to fix our marriage, and I can't make myself want him anymore. I'm disgusted by his lack of self-control and his immature need for hollow validation from a messed up woman who could be his daughter. I'm infuriated that he was unwilling to give me the only thing I asked for - cutting off contact with her. I didn't ask that he never leave me, I only asked that since he knew with certainty he didn't want her, that he cut things off and give us the chance to work on things with only the TWO of us in the marriage. But he couldn't or wouldn't go cold turkey, no, he insisted on taking the Nicoderm patch version of kissing his affair goodbye.
Now I will forever feel like I was "Plan B" because he didn't stand up for me against her. She must have laughed her ass off every time he supposedly broke things off with her, knowing full well he'd be panting after her like a dog in heat within hours. And because he was never able to truly shut the door, how do I know that if she moved back to the area, that he wouldn't be sniffing around her the moment her plane landed?
I am left with a lukewarm marriage that I don't know that I can accept. He absolutely swears to me that the contact is over, and it is true that for him, the one phone call in the past ten days is quite an accomplishment. But I am full of regret for not having understood from the start what I was up against and not being consistent in making him feel the loss from his poor decisions. He basically was cake eating for four months or more, and I provided the fork.
I told you I don't know how to be brief. It's hard to summarize several months in one post. I just don't know how I feel anymore, or what to do. Since this last (5th??) betrayal, something in me died. That he was able to not just slip up, but to lie so convincingly to me... I just don't know if this is who he truly is, or if this affair formed this person temporarily and he has the chance of reforming. I feel like I will never know if I don't pull away and still enforce some kind of consequences for everything he did and all he put me through, but I fear it's too late.
I don't know what to do. I can barely stomach looking at him.
Sorry you are back here, but we have missed you and been curious as to what your status was. I am sorry about your ongoing sitch. Unfortunately, your H does not seem to be serious about saving your M even though he is taking some steps to help keep the status quo. Seems like he is still addicted to OW and going through major withdraw. Sounds like you need to go back to full on DB. I would even push it as far to consider telling him he needs to leave the house this time, but I think some vets should chime in.
I know it has to be extremely tough given the time of year. Sending a big hug your way.
Last edited by BT13; 12/23/1507:26 PM.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Lisa, I think you need to re-read DB. Go back to Sandi's rules and start following them 100%. Right now you are being ruled by your emotions. I understand why, it is human. But your emotions are not going to get you what you want. I am not saying you want your H, maybe it really is over. But you cannot make that decision right now while you are emotional. Follow Sandy's rules. Write out some goals for yourself. Specific goals that are for YOU. Limit your contact with H. Is he still in your bed? Maybe for now ask him to move to the sofa until you can trust him again?
Most importantly, take a deep breath and do not take ANY action until you feel calm and you have given it some time.
I am sorry for you, sorry you are dealing with this. Hang in there and keep posting.
Lisa, I wanted to add that when I say limit your contact with H, I mean go as low contact as possible.
Not kick him out, not go "no contact", but I would not be providing him with any of his emotional or physical needs right now. Go as low contact as you can and take care of yourself. You do not have to be unkind, and do not engage in arguments.
Thank you so much for the input. I'm embarrassed to admit that after my initial few posts here, I became so embroiled in the day to day with H that I didn't come back here to gain the support I so desperately needed. That weekend in September will always stand out to me as one of the worst weekends of my life and causes me PTSD like symptoms whenever I revisit it in my mind.
Because of that, I missed some very important, very helpful replies because I either didn't see them, or didn't fully soak them up and implement them as I should have. I don't intend to make that mistake again.
I would be very interested in any input as to how to regain any dignity at this point. I have indeed read DB - in fact I've reread several sections of it. I wish I had taken a hardline DB approach when H was still fully in his affair three months ago.
But what of now? I don't even know what to call what he has been doing for months now. It hasn't been a PA since September, and within a couple of weeks it dwindled down to not even being a full emotional affair. It was more him feeding his addiction to her by repeatedly going back for little "hits". Those hits did become a little fewer and further between, gradually, over the three months. So I guess in the end he has gotten "his way" with his fade away approach. Call me a child, but that infuriates me to no end. Because he lied, and because I fell for it time and again, I subjected myself to demeaning treatment by allowing his cake eating. Sometimes knowingly, but mostly unknowingly.
So what are my options now? Now that there is really no more affair, just his pathetic withdrawal symptoms over the course of many weeks - what DB methods can I possibly employ, and to what end? To punish for what's already been done? Kick him out because I said I would if he messed up even one more time for 30 seconds, and he did for over an hour?
I just feel like I blew it. And I have no earthly idea how to get any respect back now at this point.
To make matters worse, even though I absolutely KNOW better, I am plagued with the impulse to contact the OW. I mean, there are times when I feel obsessed about it. I know it's wrong, I know it would be useless and ultimately make me feel horrible and look like an idiot. But one of the first things H told me about her was his concern that "trouble always follows her, but somehow she always gets off smelling like a rose - it just never sticks to her." I believe that "trouble" is her knack for using men and acting like she just has no idea, it's not HER fault everyone falls all over her. And because men are always drooling all over her, none of them ever has the nerve to call her out on her actions. I'm not a man and I can see right through her. And I can see why she always gets off Scott-free. Men look at her and lose their minds and let her get away with murder. Once again, she got off not only without a hitch, but while she helped get my husband fired from his extremely lucrative job, SHE ended up not only keeping hers for a while and then getting an even better job on the west coast.
My H says she is very messed up and much like a man in her ability to compartmentalize and deny to herself the havoc she creates in her wake. And yet even my H remains addicted. I fantasize almost daily now about confronting her so she can no longer feign innocence that she didn't know what she was doing.
Yes, I am absolutely aware of how insane that makes me sound and that it wouldn't do a thing but elevate her importance in her eyes. So screw her. But it consumes me with anger and rage that sure enough, she managed to rip through several other peoples' lives, shred them and burn them, and she's escaped to sunny California for a bright new life where she will undoubtedly destroy someone else's life. All because no one ever has the balls to confront her and bring her down.
And that's when I have to remind myself yet one more time, life isn't fair.
There are lots of thoughts I have about your post. First, stop beating yourself up. I found that my H's A caused me to act pretty crazy at times, so I totally understand how you are likely feeling right now. The lack of respect that H was showing was so painful. I think you gain some respect back by setting boundaries and following through. If you told him he was out of the house if he continued communication, then I think you need to follow through. Is this accurate? Also, are you 100% sure of his story that there is so little contact?
Second, your H seems to want to shift blame and focus on OW actions and role and you seem to want to buy this. Yes, she plays a role, but ultimately your H chose to have A and continue to reach out to her multiple times. She is really not worth your time and energy. I did send text to OW mostly to let her know I knew who she was and that I knew she was in my home. I think I may have asked her to leave my H alone as I was trying to save my M, but I kept it very calm and tame considering everything.
Finally, your H seems to have no real fear of losing you even though he seems to say it. If he truly feared losing you, he would show it in true remorse through action and keeping NC with OW. Again, I think this goes back to strong boundaries and DBing.
Me: 42 H: 40 M: 12 H moved out - 8/2015 I filed - 8/2015
Lisa - I'm glad you're posting. I'm sorry for the things you have gone through and while I wish you would have come back to post, what's done is done.
One thing to get through - DB methods are not really a trick or a play or a temporary thing designed to get your H to come back to you. It's more of a lifestyle change to get you to be the person you should be. With that said, you wrote a novel on your H and I didn't read one sentence about you other than your reactions towards H. What kind of GAL are you up to? What kinds of 180s have you been doing? And so on....
As for "blowing it"....stop that nonsense. Your feelings are feelings and May and likely will change. Experience them. Understand them. Accept them. But don't make decisions based on them. And while he violated your boundary a couple of times, that doesn't mean you can't reset it and stick to it now.
I wouldn't necessarily limit contact. But I wouldn't seek it out right now. Take your focus off H. Off OW. Get it back where it was 9/11-9/13....on you.
I think you should retread this thread a couple times. I bet most of the advice will still stand.
