October 11

[sandi2]

Some newcomers think they need to stop loving their S in order to DB. You don't ever have to stop loving her. Some think they have to act cold in order to detach. You don't ever have to act cold, angry, uncaring, vindictive, etc.

As her H, you have protected her and provided for her. As a WW, she has fired you when she gave you the bomb. She has removed herself out from under your protection and provision. Try to maintain your perspective about it.

You are afraid to end your routine of pursuing her, right? That's normal. However, it is extremely necessary that you stop all forms of pursuit. You are probably pursuing in ways that you don't even recognize, and the board members will point it out for you.

Don't worry that she won't ever pursue you. She has never had to pursue you..........right? Things change.

The WW has to experience the reality of her decision to end the M. As long as she has all the advantages of being your W and being single, too, this will could on endefinantly.

Having IC is a good thing, I suppose, however, if you are getting advice from a MC.....it will probably clash with DBing. The results will leave you feeling confused and frustrated.

[Bfice3]

Okay, so more information:

I'm going to start with a little background. My mom, was always very good about coming to me after something happened: an argument, a punishment, a fight, what have you...and she would sit in my room and talk to me from her heart, and after she left, even if I was still sad or hurt, I knew that she loved me. (Usually)

My parents would have fights, but I don't recall there ever really being loud yelling of any kind in our house. Now, there was stress, and sometimes deep silence, but no yelling.

==> Sidebar: Just the night before last, I sat with my D(15) and talked to her for about an hour. Talking to her about her emotional problems, but mostly by sharing my stories, particularly since my W decided to tell the counselor in front of our D(15) that I'm an alcoholic and tried to commit suicide at 16. So, I sat with her and told her what and who I was, how I saw things, how I was handling(ed) them. And just shared with her, and it was nice, and we hugged and I told her I loved her more than anything and that I'm always on her side and she can come to me and talk to me about anything, anytime. (That's just to give you an example of me, even now.)

On my marriage:

It became pretty obvious very early on that my wife's family liked to yell. Her parents remind me of George Costanza's parents from Seinfeld. At one point, I even made a comment to my wife about how they yell and are angry so much. And her response was, "They're not angry. Nobody's angry, thats just how we talk."

Ironically, they yell at each other a lot, but then there is no real sharing and/or caring that goes on as I knew it.

In the early days of our marriage my wife and I fought a lot over finances, taking care of the children, and things like that. My wife is a hypochondriac (self-admitted) and she is truly a stress-monger. Having children really, really, really stressed her out. Everyday normal things would set her off and make her panic and lose control. I noticed this early on.

With time, the arguments forced me to begin to yell because I couldn't ever get my point across calmly. And I changed in that way, and became quick to anger and to yell (but I was never like that before). My wife also has a very sharp tongue and will say extremely hurtful things in anger, then usually she never apologizes. (Now, maybe she does technically say "I'm sorry" sometimes, but almost 100% never has she truly made an effort to create a warm, fuzzy truly apologetic and comforting effort to restore the position to pre-argument status.)

As time went on, the arguments have changed from taking care of children, and finances, to move into just the personal situation and relationship between me and her. And as I write this, I remember that I used to complain to her that we argue too much and that we don't repair our relationship and its driving me from her. But she would retract back to her 'place' and not talk anymore, leaving me to stew in anger and resentment. Then to come out of her 'place' at some later time (hours, days) and act like nothing happened.

So, things just continued to deteriorate. She would say I'm angry, and truthfully, I was. I mad because I wanted a wife that loved me and communicate with me lovingly, but rarely received that.

Two years ago went on a trip to London and Paris together for 10 days. And frankly, it was terrible. Again, it was me noticing that we simply had nothing in common, that she and I were so distant from each other that it was miserable. I would make an observation, and express to her I wish we could find ways to restore our marriage, but she would just act like thats just the way it is, or ignore me, or blame me.

I recognize also that many times I would do things, hoping and waiting for her to 'come to me' but she never would, and I would always feel more hurt than before.

At one point we went an entire year without having sex. Every single night of that year I would want sex, naturally, but I was being stubborn to see if she would notice, or mention it, or come to me for it, or anything. Eventually, she just started saying in passing that her husband doesn't even want to have sex with her, and so finally I gave in to my urges and we had sex. Then after, I asked her why it took so long? Why did she wait like this? Why didn't she talk to me, or come to me or anything, and she had no reason. I think she just said, "I don't know".

Over time, she became 'the bitch' and I became 'mean'. And that's basically just how we have seen each other I guess. It hurts, it [censored], and I always hated, but could never find a way to change it. I would go to her, and say I wanted to change things, I wanted to repair our relationship, our marriage. And she would nod and maybe say a few things, but never really did we ever manage to act.

Most nights, she would just want to go lay in bed and watch tv, alone. And she just kept herself emotionally unavailable to me.

I wuold be emotionally unavailable to her, I'm sure also. But, somehow in my mind, it was always her fault. And I imagine in her mind, it was always my fault. I recognized this. And I would say, okay, go to your wife, talk to her. And I did. Many times. Usually with zero results. With her saying, I dont want to talk right now. I'm tired. I'm too busy. Then just silence.

And that's how it was.

[Azzork]

A couple things -

Have you read the 5 love languages? You seem very oriented towards words. You need to "speak lovingly" to show your love. Maybe your W gives or receives love differently. I'm guessing she probably does. Expecting her to speak your language is a recipe for failure without speaking in hers also.

You mention about going to her to try to change things. Did you ever try to change yourself. By going to her, you are saying that SHE needs to change something. It's time to look in the mirror and actually change. Why would she want to resume a marriage she didn't like unless she knew it was going to be different?

[Mach1]

Hey B...

First off, thank you for sharing more of your story.

You seem as though you are a pretty private person, and the thought of laying such intimate details out there for the world to see, might have you a bit frazzled...

So...Thank You for sharing more of.....you


Secondly, you had asked about other posters and other situations that you could read, that may have an impact on your situation.

I echo what the others have said already, that you should just read. You will find others who are in very similar situations, and you will feel a kinship to other posters.

The best thing that you can do, is to start posting to others too.

You will meet some incredible people here..

This place really is, the best, worst place to be..

Also, you can read the archives. It is filled with situations like yours, with people that have walked the path that you are on, before you did. You will see some amazing growth there too. Mostly because you can read a whole thread without waiting for this person or that person to respond.

A few years ago, the Moderators tried something different, called a bootcamp thread. They were intended to really focus in on the aspects of what DB philosophy is. I had the privilege of posting to a guy named Breakdown on his thread.

I still go back and read it from time to time, just because of where he was to where he is now...

I think that maybe you would enjoy reading it...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2257683#Post2257683



I would also recommend reading the 5LL book, although being at the early stage that you are in, you are gonna see it as a "what I did wrong in my Marriage" beatdown...

And that is okay.

I highly recommend reading that book twice. Once in the beginning, to see where you are now, and then again after 6-8 months, and you will be reading an entirely different book the second time...

As others have pointed out...??

Go easy on yourself too B....you did the best that you could with the tools that you had..

And I highly doubt that anything that you said or have done, was done with malice....

Thank You once again for sharing....

[Bfice3]

Some newcomers think they need to stop loving their S in order to DB. You don't ever have to stop loving her. Some think they have to act cold in order to detach. You don't ever have to act cold, angry, uncaring, vindictive, etc.

Sandi, or anyone else, I would love it you could point me in a direction to learn about DBing, detaching, and doing it with love!!!

This is my biggest issue (I think).

And yes, I'm concerned also about how to act in the counseling session. we meet tomorrow night at 5:30 with the MC. I don't want to be negative, but I really just don't even feel like going. The one thing that I want to happen isn't going to happen. And I really don't feel like sitting in another session listening to my wife bash on me, or tell again how she only loves me like a brother.

So, I'm supposed to be trying to have a positive attitude, and have no expectations right?

I mean, right now I just keep thinking about how my W hasn't even bothered to call and check on me once during all of this. The only thing she has done that could be classified as working on the marriage is going to counseling. But that doesn't really count because its definitely not positive.

Anyway...I hope everyone has a good night. I'll be around some tomorrow.

[Bfice3]

Hey Mach1, thank you for the kind words. I have started reading that thread and it is good to read. At the very least it lets me know a little bit about you and where you're coming from also. So, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my thread also.

Also, its funny. I mean, on some level I am private, but at the same time I feel like I'm very open. Its hard to explain.

Here's an update on events.

After the whole notion of me giving her money, and calling her Monday morning at work. I had zero other contact until she sent me a text at 11:26pm last night asking if I wanted to meet her in the morning at 8am and maybe go back to our house and have coffee and talk. (The weird thing is the text coming at 11:30pm she is usually in bed much earlier...but I digress) I simply responded with an ok.

So, I got up and got dressed nice, but I made sure to show up just after she arrived at the oil change. She got in and we said hi. She showed me her broken cell phone, and her new cell phone she picked up the night before. We went to the house and had coffee.

I tried to validate when I could. She asked me about the funeral, and my licensing exam. I gave her information, and was trying to stay impersonal but upbeat, except when it got to the funeral. Then it got hard.

She told me she is going 30 minutes early to our MC this evening. I made a mistake and asked if I should be concerned, but she said no, she wanted to give her perspective, so I let it drop. I should have validated, but I panicked.

She brought up the finances and I think I did really well. She mentioned little things about spending money on the kids for teachers christmas presents and I said that I've been having to buy things for them too, notebooks, poster boards, pencil case, etc. So that was a wash. She mentioned other expenses, her traffic ticket, her parents presents, etc...and I tried to validate by saying its expensive, I understand. She mentioned future expenses for the kids, clothes, piano lessons, etc...and I said I wanted to pay for half of all of that, but that I would like input on anything that is an expense before it becomes an expense. And really that was about all that was said.

She got a call from, the autoshop, and I said okay. She said, well we can spend ten more minutes. And I said okay. So we talked a little more. There were things that made me worried about her mental state regarding everything but I tried to not let it get to me. Then after a few minutes she said okay, lets go I guess. And I stood up and said okay, yeah. She looked at me and asked if I wanted to talk about anything else, and I simply said no (in an upbeat manner as much as I could muster.)

We got in the car and I dropped her off and said goodbye. And that was it. I haven't cried yet, but I sure do feel like it. But instead of crying here I am spilling it all on the net. But this feels better, lol.

I'm still really really unsure and scared about this whole DBing thing, but I'm trusting that I'm doing something different than I've ever done before, probably in my life. I went this morning with no expectations. I didn't show up angry, I didn't show up happy. I just waited to see what would happen.

I'm going to try very hard to do the same thing tonight at MC. But, to be honest, I'm very worried about what she is going to tell the MC beforehand. This is definitely one of those times in the past where I would get drunk in advance to show up too. I seriously hope I dont do that tonight. I won't. I'm just expressing a fear.

Anyway...I'll be around in and out today.

I hope everyone is having a great day. It's not cold here in North Carolina, but it is very rainy and miserable outside.

[Bfice3]

Okay. So, I just spoke with a friend in A.A. about my just discovered urge to drink. Its so weird. He asked me what my trigger was. I said I don't know. He said it sounds like you had a good meeting with your wife, whats the deal? He says, it sounds like you have an urge to self-destruct, self-sabotage.

The funny thing is, I have another friend that helped me move out of my house and into my apartment who's known me since college, and he says very similar things.

I didn't even recognize it. I don't recognize it. What the hell does this mean?

Anyway...

[Mach1]

Hey Mach1, thank you for the kind words. I have started reading that thread and it is good to read. At the very least it lets me know a little bit about you and where you're coming from also. So, thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my thread also.

Readers Digest version ???

Bomb-2007
OM-1
Anger
WTF ??
STFU
OM-2
work on me
OM-3
She filed
Court battle
Dvcd-2011

Living my life and attempting to make better decisions every single day since....

I'm going to try very hard to do the same thing tonight at MC. But, to be honest, I'm very worried about what she is going to tell the MC beforehand. This is definitely one of those times in the past where I would get drunk in advance to show up too. I seriously hope I dont do that tonight. I won't. I'm just expressing a fear.

Look B...

She may or may not be ready for MC. And that is okay for now.

She has years and years of unresolved questions and anger that have built up inside of her...and ALL of that HAS to come out at some point.

Now, it can be through MC, or standing on your porch, while Bigfoot is chasing you, whatever, wherever....but it IS gonna come out of her....

What you need to realize, is that it is a good thing that it is coming out at all...

And that this is gonna turn worse way before it starts to get better...


Good job on this morning. It is a lot easier to handle when you aren't a blubbering hot mess huh ???

What so you think was the difference between this morning and the past few weeks ???

Cause I can assure you, the the potential was still there for her to flip the "bitch switch" on you....

Hint ???

Because you were more focused on you, than you were on her

[Bfice3]

She may or may not be ready for MC. And that is okay for now.

She has years and years of unresolved questions and anger that have built up inside of her...and ALL of that HAS to come out at some point.

Now, it can be through MC, or standing on your porch, while Bigfoot is chasing you, whatever, wherever....but it IS gonna come out of her....

What you need to realize, is that it is a good thing that it is coming out at all...

Yeah, makes total sense.

And that this is gonna turn worse way before it starts to get better...

And...crush. I so hope you are wrong about this...but somehow, I doubt that you are.

Because you were more focused on you, than you were on her

Maybe so...I need to believe that I had an impact on it going well. Not for her, but for me. I need something to hold onto. Slow positive growth.



I'm really sorry to hear about your reader's digest version. I really just can't even imagine. Thank you for being here to help guy's like me.

[sandi2]

It is difficult when M to a spouse who is very different emotionally. It seems that most people M their opposites. I once heard it explained that that is what makes us complete, b/c they have what we lack......and we have what they lack.

I certainly M my opposite! And, I'll tell you that the longer I have been M.......well, it hasn't gotten easier. As you get older, you just have new problems to come.

I come from a family who was very close and we talked all the time. We talked out our problems, heartaches, joys, everything. My parents would talk after they went to bed. So, I thought talking was a main factor in a relationship.

My H came from a loving family. We have very similar backgrounds. His family like to talk, too. All, except my H. Most of my problems with him was that he wouldn't talk with me. I never felt emotionally intimate with him, and I wanted it so much. To this day, I learn more by hearing him talk to others about things he never told me. Going to bed, for him, was to have sex. After sex, he would get up to watch tv until he fell asleep. There was no pillow talk for us, and I craved it. I think it was an emotional need that was never filled. I tried and tried to tell him what I needed in order to give him what he needed. I would try to meet his needs......but he acted as if he could never understand mine.

So, yes, it is difficult when you are M to your opposite. It is difficult when you marry into a family that is very different from your own. If you are very young when you M, it is easy to lose yourself, trying to adapt to all these different people and feel that you fit in somewhere.

I have accepted that my H will not change and become the way I want him to be with me. It makes me sad b/c I still have those emotional needs. Part of loving another person is accepting them the way they are, and not try to change them. DBing is about changing ourselves in a positive way, and hopefully, it has a positive influence on our S, as well as our children. It's not easy when we see the uglies sticking out in our S! It gets very challenging. It's during those challenging times that we need to get by ourselves, or with our friends on the board, and regroup. Focus on ourself. Watch our own actions, attitudes, behavior, speech, etc. The minute I start watching my H's uglies, I get kind of ugly myself. Anyone else have that problem? I bet so.

Anyway, I may not have said much to help you today, but it helped me by just talking it out and reminding myself of a couple of things. I know neither my H or I are the people we M when we were so very young. I am sure he misses that 18 year old girl. Although I can't physically be that girl again, I can try to find the part he fell in love with. It's still there in my heart. It's just a matter of letting him see it.

I believe that's what you were doing with your daughter. You were letting her see who you were. That's good, and she will never forget that talk. Just remember something. Daughters don't need their dads to be perfect, but they do need their dads to show them they are special and loved. I have tried to encourage another dad to make a habit of checking in with his teenage D every night and just see how she's doing that day. A special time for daughter and father. Won't take much to get her to open up, and it will do wonders for the relationship.