dday, getting out of the muck

[dday]

Grl, thanks for the support!

Mu. I reread your fire story. Wow, so fitting. This hope of mine is a huge enemy to me in some aspects. I haven't figured out how to manage it. And dating, I have a friend that wants to set me up with a friend of hers. I think I will go meet her. I do not want anything serious, and will be up front about it. Just someone to hang out with and go see a movie or something.

Hope everyone is doing well today. Holidays are rough, so be kind to yourself!

[mutatio]

Just someone to be your friend and distract yourself with. No more right now. You'll be fine dday, the worst is over. There will still be days of sadness but nothing like before.

[Ancaire]

Good morning, D! Just checking in on you. It looks like you've got it pretty much under control.

I was thinking about your boys while I was wrapping gifts last night. When my kids were younger, I used to extend Christmas by several hours by having a treasure hunt with one of their gifts. I'd hide the gift somewhere in the house. When they got through opening all their gifts, they knew to look for the ornament on the tree that had a clue attached (I'd have to write names, with five kids they'd often find one another's clues...lol) Each clue lead to a different place in the house - I had about 10 clues leading up to the hidden gift. My kids loved this. When the twins were so young they couldn't read yet, I'd draw pictures of the hiding spots so they could play, too.

For an oven, I'd write something like: "I start out cold, but can get very hot." Some years, I'd be super-creative, some years less so, depending on how much time I had to dream up clues. For me, I was coming up with 50, so time didn't always allow lots of time if I wasn't thinking about it far enough in advance.

I wanted to pass this along for your boys. You may not have time for such an activity this year, but there's always the next! I always tried to make holidays fun - there's nothing like the joy of watching your kids making memories.

[dday]

Mu, yes just a friend.

Hi judy. Thanks for the ideas. I never did find a sled, but I was looking. Of course it's 60 some degrees here today already... very weird.

Treasure hunt sounds fun too.

Emotionally, I'm on a rollercoaster, but at least it is mine now. Anger, disappointment, disgust, sadness. Those are my enemies right now. Priest/ic told me not to pray for them to go away, to pray for guide new how to work through them. My preacher friend said that it is perfectly normal, and I have to feel them to be real and genuine.

Time to do my own thing.

Now, my only W question. How do I go forward with her wanting to talk and be "friends"? Do I avoid her and walk away? If I let her lead, that is where she will lead me... friend zone.

[Sotto]

Hi Dday, with the 'let's be friends' thing - I don't think you need to avoid her & walk away. I think it is more a case of having a life of your own, having friends and fun stuff to do. That way, when you see her you can be brief, pleasant neighbourly - and then there's somewhere else you need to be. That isn't friends - it's colleague/neighbour territory and I think that's right zone for her...

Take care xx

[mutatio]

Treat her like a neighbor. When you want to talk, talk. When you want to walk, walk. You don't owe her conversation. You must respect her wishes but she must respect yours. If you tired, upset, not in a mood to talk let her know. Use kindness and be clear. Love does not mean your a doormat. No one respects that role. They may take advantage of it but do not respect it. Be strong

[Ancaire]

I understand, D, how hard it is putting someone you love into a new "zone". In your case, though...you've told W constantly that you have no desire to be just her friend. You've told her how difficult it is for you to be put in that position. No matter what you tell her, she ignores you and runs her own agenda.

On the other hand, you don't want to alienate her so there is no chance of reconciliation. I believe Sotto and Mutatio both have it right. Treat her with kindness, but on a surface level. "hi" "bye" "how are you?". That's about the extent of conversation you want to have, other than discussions about the children. Resist her efforts to pull you into talking about her life, her troubles, etc.

When she starts to go there, remember something you had to do, and go somewhere else/hang up/ etc. Ideally, you will get so busy that she will have trouble getting ahold of you. You're never home, you're always talking to someone else, that kind of thing. I know this is going to be hard for you - but I also know you can do it.

I plan to start acting warm/aloof. True to my nature, but having no discussions with H. I've told him far too much already about my feelings for him. I plan to just back away entirely. I have no idea how this will work out, but I know I can't just be his friend - and I also know that unless he misses me hugely, he will never have any motivation to change.

I don't want to be taken for granted anymore. I'd rather be on my own, with friends, than in an empty marriage, with just H for company. Look how that worked out for me! I'm a nice person - and to hear him talk, the devil just released me to go cause trouble on earth! I have no idea how his vision became so skewed, but as long as it remains that way, warmly/aloof is my best bet. I say "warmly" because that's just who I am. I can be aloof - generally with people I don't care for, and he knows that.

I'll be checking in to see how everyone is handling the holidays. I can't remember, how did your time with the boys work out? When are you getting them?

[tl2]

How do I go forward with her wanting to talk and be "friends"? Do I avoid her and walk away? If I let her lead, that is where she will lead me... friend zone.

I don't mean to be harsh, but I hear your sense of loss talking here; it sounds to me like you're still trying to affect the outcome, clinging to hope. Time to nip that in the bud.

I look at it like this: My R with my XW is now essentially a business relationship. Like at work where we often have to have functional relationships with people we don't consider friends and don't want to be friends with, yet we still need to keep communication and interaction positive because it's our job...even if we don't like being around certain people.

Same thing here as I see it. Just keep it polite and lightly friendly. When you're ready to be done or walk away, politely excuse yourself. You owe her nothing more than honoring your agreements, keeping things constructive and smooth for your sons, and basic politeness.

I wouldn't worry about telling her about how you want things to be, how you don't want to be friends, etc. I would just define my boundaries by my actions/interactions and leave the rest with her.

About dating: I know everyone is different but I'm going against the grain here and would suggest that you search your mind real good before going on even a casual date. There certainly is nothing wrong with it. But this is a vulnerable time and you are still processing your feelings about your W, your M, the D, etc.

Only you can decide if you're ready or not, and there's nothing wrong with doing it now if you choose. There's also nothing wrong with not doing it until you think you're ready.

[dday]

Thanks all. I still have too much hope. I don't know how to let that go yet. And, obviously, I want us back. But I can see that it is a long road to there, if it ever happens.
tl2
On the dating idea... I think I am ready. I certainly could use some new friends and some fun. You are right on the vulnerability issue. I have truly been "alone" since Memorial Day. So, whenever I decide to, I will have to be careful.

Thanks for checking on me everyone! You guys rock

[tl2]

Just from what I know about you from here, I have respect for how hard you've worked to try and make lemonade out of lemons for you and the kids. I wish you well, bro. And a very merry christmas to you and your boys.