In The Arena II

[Vanilla]

Thank you V, I know you have much on your plate and that you have taken so much time to consider my issues, I feel truly valued and cared for. A lot of love and support has come my way in recent days. I am very humbled and grateful.

I have picked out a few of your comments that resonated for me.

Who wants a long term R with a partner with low self worth? Those who have low self worth themselves? Irrespective of their weight.


This ^^^^^^ is the very question I ask myself V and one of the reasons I struggle. I feel that my self worth is judge on my appearance and any man is looking at me and saying "huh she doesn't care about herself, why should I, oh and she has to be high maintenance, she's gotta have a lot of issues".

OK. I am going to say there is truth in this. Of course a great deal of extra weight says "health issues" . It must do so, let's face facts obesity has intendent health issues with it. It is not the only factor though. Heavy smoking, drinking, poor hygiene, poor grooming, out of control fins, say the same. Personally I prefer a partner without any of the issues. I don't find unplesant tattoos attractive either. We consider our partners as a package. Look at the factors overall. We weigh them in the balance.

Some of these will be deal breakers and others not. So for me compulsivity is now a deal breaker, some excess weight not so important. I do need an active partner though so obesity to the point of inactivity is. It tells me that there is lack of self care.

However those who need their partners to look like a top model are also seeking external validation from others. "I need a looker on my arm" sends a different message about the one who needs that. What happens if that looker is shallow, a cheater, or has an accident. What then? Suppose they get depressed and change.

If we choose partners who look at who we are and our personalities as a mode. Then there are things which are good and bad about us. Weight is one of those factors and it's not the only one. It can be a deal breaker for some.

But yes, it would be foolish to deny the effects that weight has on image. It would also be foolish to deny that some judge others on this factor alone. It's very visible to be seriously overweight. And to be judged in this way can be unkind and says much about the one doing the judging. So now we judge the judges! They are allowed a preference is chosing their partner, that is ok.

There is truth in your view with some partners. It is faulty thinking to say all partners though, which is what you are saying. Jellyb of course there are those who think know this way and it seems as if this may be your own belief too. Your own internal critic is harder on you than others might be.


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That is why I think you reach points in your R after a period when your weight becomes an issue for you. Your perceived weighting value to your partner changes and you focus on your weight as the defining issue.

I would like to explore this idea some more. I am not quite sure what you might be getting at. My thinking has been that the as familiarity and safety increases, there is more demand for honesty and intimacy. I begin to feel seen and exposed. I think maybe (I really don't know) that I freak out that he is really going to see how unattractive on the inside I am, how messy, how crazy, how broken and as I create issues the avoid further intimacy being created, I feel more and more broken as they lose attraction. To get control back I focus on my outward appearance and weight.

I think I stop self care and grooming as means of pushing my lovely man away. So intimacy stops. A theory V.

And a good theory. I think this holds for you in part Jellyb. It's protective of you and works. We can look at this in depth. Consider the imposter syndrome which can be defined as a collection of feelings of inadequacy that persist even in face of information that indicates that the opposite is true. It is experienced internally as chronic self-doubt, and feelings of intellectual fraudulence. It also applies with appearance issues too.

Some common feelings and thoughts that might characterize the impostor syndrome are: "I feel like a fake" "My classmates/professors/work colleagues/dance partnrrs etc. are going to find out I don't really belong here," "my partner made a mistake," etc.

Research at Caltech on high fly women students ledo to the following extracted from the study:

The impostor feelings can be divided into three sub categories:

1. Feeling like a fake: the belief that one does not deserve his or her success or professional position and that somehow other have been deceived into thinking otherwise. This goes together with a fear of being, "found out", discovered or "unmasked". People who feel this way would identify with statements such as: "I can give the impression that I am more competent than I really am." "I am often afraid that others will discover how much knowledge I really lack".

2. Attributing success to luck: Another aspect of the impostor syndrome is the tendency to attribute success to luck or to other external reasons and not to your own internal abilities. Someone with such feeling would refer to an achievement by saying, "I just got lucky this time" "it was a fluke" and with fear that they will not be able to succeed the next time.

3. Discounting Success: The third aspect is a tendency to downplay success and discount it. One with such feelings would discount an achievement by saying, "it is not a big deal," "it was not important." One example of this is discounting the fact that they made it here, which is really a big success. Or saying, "I did well because it is an easy class, etc." Or, you might have a hard time accepting compliments.

This applies to the things you are saying. Observe it, note it when it happens as that is interesting. Oh and look it is a recognisable thinking error. Like black and white thinking or mind reading. Thoughts don't make truths they are just thoughts. They pass. Let them pass whilst observing. Oh look there is that part of me that likes to be a chameleon, hello goodbye ms make believe imposter.



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Childhood and adult abuse will bring us low self worth, in which extra weight can hide us. Jellyb I have never been overweight until recently, now I am 20 lbs overweight, it feels like protection. It is my grey rock, it makes me think that WH will find me unattractive and will leave me alone. My psyche says 20 lbs is enough, when I am ready it will go.

20 lbs is damaging on a tiny frame like mine, energy and health reducing but not immobilising. 80, 90, 100, 150, 200, 250 lbs as extra weight is gradually more restrictive and life shortening. Would 20 lbs satisfy Jellyb? Can she settle for a lower value of extra weight to serve her protection?


This was my story for a long time V. Men have always scared me. Good and bad men. Bad men are easier for me to understand. I understand the need to protect myself from them. I feel comfortable feeling defended, I have great strategies in place to deal with men that are evasive, avoidant, unavailable, cruel.

And so you should. Absolutely. That is great self care.

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I can understand why a bad man would be attracted to me. They have no integrity, they use and are selfish.

These types will do this to anyone.
So what!!

I might send a melange of my, ancs, GG and msd WH over for you to meet!!

And incidentally so do bad women.

Although I prefer to label the behaviour rather than the person. So those who behave badly will generally do so in all of their Rs including work Rs and friendships. It's the type and they aren't selective, you know this. Can't kid a Kidder ...

Good men freak me out. I can turn them into bad men very easily.

Oh dear! Do you really think you have this power over another? I doubt it. Even God and the devil have difficulties with self determination. Jellyb, this is faulty thinking!

I don't understand good men. I never know their agenda. I feel unprepared to deal with them. Are they being nice to me because they are genuinely interested in me and kind or is there something else they want that is going to eventually going to hurt me.

What you are saying is its hard to evaluate another's motives. I personally don't subscribe to the Venus and Mars stereotyping at all, men and women are statistically more alike than different. Many so called attribute differentiation between the sexes is statistically insignificant. We all have the same higher power.
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Being on the boards has given me a really good experience of men without having to take an emotional risk. I have let go of some long held beliefs, about men always feeling control, of men not considering woman and their positions. That men are kind and have extraordinarily developed emotional lives.

I am moving away from an emotional gender divide to a more holistic view of humanity and our collective struggle of relationships and emotional complexity.

This has been good learning and healing. But I have no practical knowledge of how this changes my engagement with men.

You are an interesting and intelligent woman, eventually you will resource it and apply. Trust your higher power to guide you.

It could be you could choose more male friends. I mean friends, older, younger, gay, the wrong background, family members etc. I really mean friends!

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To ask ourselves for extreme self care is not, as it requires our best not the ideal.

This extreme self care V, I think is a vital piece of healing.

For you Jellyb absolutely vital.


I believe there is a direct link here to FOO issues. I don't know what it is, but my denial of self care, the unconscious neglect of self, I feel is cycling through of parental neglect.

Absolutely, I agree. Time to parent yourself, would you want to be 90 years old and still say "my parents neglected me and therefore I neglect myself, I am waiting for it to be different"

I don't feel entitled to care, don't know how to do it.

it is a right and obligation to do this for yourself not an entitlement.

Time to learn if you don't know how.

A reabusing of sorts.

Of yourself?.
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I have such a strong desire to be cared for and protected by the men in my life and when natural distancing occurs or separation to engage in one's special interests and life, I feel neglected and stop self care.

Jellyb, your responsibility for yourself is something that you can never delegate to another.

Non dependent adults create serious issues if they delegate their self care to another. It is your responsibility to take action for this aspect of care of yourself for yourself.

It is giving away your power at best and creating unreasonable burdens for others who are "good". It attracts those who want control over others, those who put their own agenda first. Personally responsibility for someone else's wellbeing is too much for me. Got enough with my own stuff.

Romantic relationships have phases to maturity, one of those is separating and identifying ourselves as individuals in an R. This is difficult if you want another to take care of you. In that phase they are likely to want to assert themselves.
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I talk about this behaviour as my "little girl" the desire to be cared for by partner and resentment is strong when I stop feeling cared for.

You make others responsible for something you as an adult are responsible for and then when they as reasonable adults say "Jellyb do that for yourself". You resent them.?

As an adult saying to another is very loving " thats your job for you Jellyb, My boundary is for you to be responsible for you, and me for me".

It is very mature of partners, friends and family to say your happiness and care is your responsibility Jellyb. That is really great love, holding the individual responsible for thems elves, free to be themselves, exercise their own will.

Beware of the one who wants to take care of you. They inevitably will treat you badly in your eyes and may do so in practice.
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Self responsibility and the ability to self soothe have all been behaviours I have been developing. There is a balance required between being little girl being cared for and asking for help (a recent 180).

Good, as it should be.

V