Nate you have this, pull on all the resources you have from other areas of your life. There are bits in your post at times that I know exactly the strength of character you have, and I get the sense that you have good skills at weighing up strategies and interventions that would work well. You have these abilties. Sometimes we forget in times of emotional overwhelm but they are there.
I wonder is some of this is about finding the balance between when to let yourself feel emotion and when to contain it. I keep coming back to your experience in the miltary. Is this right? Are there skills and resources from there that could help when engaging with W?
I am not sure if this is the best way to think about it because maybe feeling emotion is exactly what you need to be doing. I'm just not sure if it is serving you very well when dealing with your W.
I am so happy to see Fogg posting on your thread. He is man of great emotional balance and is extremely considered about when and how he expresses emotion to his W. He is a sensitive, emotional and thoughtful man. He provides solid advice with much care. He is worthy of you listening to.
Fogg is telling you to not force the issue. What does another day do in the big picture? Not much, most likely.
I'm impatient, just like you. Want to see change NOW. I told my wife I would not live in an open relationship. I never wanted to D, but the wife has talked about it in the past, so she's used that as a way to get a reaction out of me.
It sounds like your W wants at least a relationship, and isn't into spewing hatred at you. I'd take that to the bank. Once my wife started wanting to actually be in the same room as me, I wanted to lay it all on the table. She just wasn't ready, and won't be for a while. Just make the deposit into her bank, and then flip the switch back to you. You need to have some concrete under your feet when you make your case, not quicksand. You need enough intestinal fortitude to stand up to her attacks on you when you present your case.
Well, the "talk" was her idea. She brought it up. It wasn't something that I was pushing for. She has expressed to me that she's been upset that since all this happened, that I've simply ignored her. She keeps talking about "figuring out new roles in is a learning process". To me, that means "roles" is us not together raising a kid.
She has claimed that everytime she has said hello, I have actively and intentionally ignored her, but she's used to that by now.....I told her that that was simply how I reacted to knowing she was still continuing on in the affair. "She has stated we will forever have a role in each other's lives, it's just that our roles have changed. We have to communicate in order to be effective parents now that our lives are separate."
My role has not been eliminated, just changed, we have to figure out the new roles. This doesn't sound like someone that has any inkling of Reconciliation. The relationship she seems to want, is to be some level of friends, but, if she's in the affair, is that not just her cake eating? She can't have both worlds.
We put rules on the trial separation, and she immediately broke those rules. We said no dating, and try to at least do some relationship counseling. I tossed the relationship counseling idea out the window as I didn't think it would do anygood at this point. And she lied and said that she had cut off the affair. She hadn't, and I found proof of it. So she changed the rules of the separation right from the beginning. So, now I feel like she's just getting whatever she wants now. She's trying to "friend zone" me, while keeping up this affair in some form. He's married, I highly DOUBT he will leave his family for her, as the cost would be too great, but who knows. She seems to be lingering waiting to see what it turns into. It's very frustrating. I feel like I need to stand up for myself somewhat.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
Nate you have this, pull on all the resources you have from other areas of your life. There are bits in your post at times that I know exactly the strength of character you have, and I get the sense that you have good skills at weighing up strategies and interventions that would work well. You have these abilties. Sometimes we forget in times of emotional overwhelm but they are there.
I wonder is some of this is about finding the balance between when to let yourself feel emotion and when to contain it. I keep coming back to your experience in the miltary. Is this right? Are there skills and resources from there that could help when engaging with W?
I am not sure if this is the best way to think about it because maybe feeling emotion is exactly what you need to be doing. I'm just not sure if it is serving you very well when dealing with your W.
I am so happy to see Fogg posting on your thread. He is man of great emotional balance and is extremely considered about when and how he expresses emotion to his W. He is a sensitive, emotional and thoughtful man. He provides solid advice with much care. He is worthy of you listening to.
Take Care Nate
JellyBXXX
You could be right, this could be a time where maybe I just weigh what she says, and then just validate whatever it is she says. It's hard, my coach has said just to ignore the OM, and to me, that just seems very passive. She's dictating the relationship we will have, without any of the drawbacks. I feel that's very disrespectful. Putting me in the "friend zone". That doesn't sit well with me.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
Careful. There is a huge difference between letting her cake eat while putting you in the friend zone and you being a jerk and ignoring her. It's not an easy balance, many of us struggle for months with it but you being cold/rude toward her isn't the DB path.
There is a way to act and it has nothing to do with how she acts toward you. Her being an [censored] to you does not give you the right to treat her the same way.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Careful. There is a huge difference between letting her cake eat while putting you in the friend zone and you being a jerk and ignoring her. It's not an easy balance, many of us struggle for months with it but you being cold/rude toward her isn't the DB path.
There is a way to act and it has nothing to do with how she acts toward you. Her being an [censored] to you does not give you the right to treat her the same way.
I guess I don't understand what that balance is, where she's just walking over me, and me not just being a doormat. That's a fine line that I don't understand how to walk right now. My coach has said "friendly neighbor", but once again that seems counter-intuitive. That seems like I'm just okay with her pursuing her A, and not asserting myself where I stand.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
That's not an easy question to answer and really requires a bunch of other things to be learned first. I'm still working on that balance myself after almost a year but I've not had to deal with the intense cake eating either.
First off there's nothing you can do about the A so asserting yourself makes it seem like you can put your foot down and tell her to stop. You cant control her or tell her what to do. Shes an adult and can make the decisions on what she wants to do in life, you might not like it but you need to respect thats its her right to live the way she chooses. All you can do is tell her you wont live in an open M while she continues to have an A. This is how you live your life. If her being in the A is a deal breaker than you decide what to do.
You have a couple options here on what to do one way or another.
The first one is to just D her. File and be done with it. That's something you have to decide for yourself, no one else can. Not something that's generally advised because people tend to do it to get a reaction from their W in the hopes it will wake them up. It wont and it will backfire on you. Only file for D if you intend to D her and are completely done with the M.
The other option is to move forward with your life and be separated from her. DB and change into the man you want to be, keep your interactions with her polite and cordial but keep it "friendly neighbor" and about co-parenting. While shes in an A you aren't there to be her "gay boyfriend" or provide for her needs, shes has to experience the consequences of her actions BUT you cant do this in a rude or punishing way. Basically you turn into the man only a fool would leave. If she wises up and ends the A, or its dies out naturally as they tend to do, you decide what happens next. If shes willing to do the work to rebuild the M, then you decide if you are also.
Also, I'm not sure I would call her being in an A as you being the doormat. If she expected you to wash her laundry while she goes out with the guy, that's being a doormat. Standing for your M, even while shes in an A, is not being a doormat.
I hope someone else can chime in also because this is a pretty big topic and I'm sure I'm missing a lot.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
We went out last night, and met at a place we've always went to in the past. She did a lot of talking about how things have been for her, I just listened and validated. I had a coaching session with my coach, yesterday afternoon to get her take on what I should do. She convinced me that some of the actions and signs my W has been giving me suggests that my W is not done with me. She doesn't know what she really wants, but not done, so, there was some hope there.
We talked about a lot of things, I talked about the coming months with my mother preparing to buy a home and move to Dallas, and helping her out with that. We small talked. We had some relationship talk a little bit. I told her about the things that I'm working on for myself to become better, she talked about the challenges of living on her own, and not really having any friends, and just sitting at home all the time. It wasn't a bad experience.
At the end, she said that she wasn't in a place where she could decide what she wanted with us, that she didn't want to make any promises, or for me to get my hopes up. I told her I can accept her thoughts, and be okay with that. I didn't bring up the A or anything, as my coach told me if I really wanted to give NO chance to reconciliation, then I should do that and continue to be cold to her. So, I decided against it. We said our goodnights and went home.
This morning she texted me to see if I found the tax returns from last year yet, and also to see if I was feeling okay.
That's about all I have to report for now.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
Sounds like your DB coach was right on, and she temp checked you this morning.
I'd ignore the second question she gave you, and send the tax returns you find to her in the mail.
BTW, my wife said the same things when we talked, and she was still in her EA - just didn't know what to do - her head said one thing, and her heart was pulling her in the wrong direction. Thank God my wife's head seemed to have won out, but after almost 2 months, she's still in the fog. This will continue to be painful for you - when you see her it's like someone sticking their finger into an open wound. Your focus needs to be on other things than her. Tough lesson I've learned in the last month.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
At the end, she said that she wasn't in a place where she could decide what she wanted with us, that she didn't want to make any promises, or for me to get my hopes up. I told her I can accept her thoughts, and be okay with that.
What did you mean when you said you could accept her thoughts and be okay with that? What did you really mean?
IMHO, you should turn your focus on everything in your life......expect your W. And you do not have to be cold. What she said to you is what we call script. Those are the same lines other WW's say to their LBH'S. Here's the translation: "I am placing you on hold, until I see if plan A comes through. If plan A doesn't work out, then you will be my plan B. I know you will be there, always wanting me, regardless of how sh'tty I have treated you".
So, why not move forward and enjoy this time you have, instead of living in agony, waiting to see what she decides? I promise you, it will serve you much better than trying to persuade her to change her mind about staying M to you.
Moving forward does not mean you go file for a D. It means to have a life without it centered around her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
By accepting her thoughts, I was just validating that she has decided that she's not in a place to talk about us, and what her feelings here are. That's all. I wasn't going to press, or beg or anything about the relationship. There was only passive mention of D, in the context of, well if we can't get to a better place, then maybe we just D.
Ironically, as you say Sandi, I'm the one that has a much more active social life. She doesn't really have any friends, she's never been good at cultivating friendships. She has acquaintances at work, but she only goes to 1 bar, and would never go there alone. She said things like "I deserve better, my heart is hard because I was neglected". Things like that. I know A's tend to burn themselves out. The only D she's ever mentioned is an uncontested divorce, because she simply doesn't have the money to fight it out in court. And probably why she hasn't talked much about filing. It may very well be that she's trying to play this out and then come back when it doesn't work out. I have actually been very busy with friends, getting the house ready for Christmas. My biggest problem is just the waves of emotion that hit me when I think of something about us, or the void that is suddenly there where my W used to be. That is where my struggle is, and sometimes causes me to think to do rash things.
Me:36 W: 27 D2 T10 M:2.5 Filed D 1/14/16 BD: Sep 15 A Discovered: 11/17/15 She moves out 11/19/15
