October 11

[Mach1]

Hey B....

Now you are starting into what DBing is all about....

A lot of people come here looking for that magic bullet, the one that will fix all of their woes, and turn their marriage into something from a Hollywood movie or something....

That isn't how DBing works...

Dbing is about changing yourself, and correcting all of the issues that helped contribute to the downfall of the marriage.

It is about finding the you that you have lost over the years, and finally seeing the light on the poor relationship habits that have been developed over time.

It is about recognizing our own behaviors that have plagued you, and even hindered you throughout the marriage.

I'm glad that you are seeing some of those things now, and I am glad that you are willing to take a look at what your contributions were helped break things down between the two of you.

You will grow, and you will change if you are willing to look within yourself, and allow it....

I know that I stung you the other day, and it was actually my intention to do so. I wanted to shake you out of your fort that you were building. The time you spent being pissed at me, was time that you weren't thinking about how crappy things were right now.

And with the DB process, if you can't handle me ?

Then how are you gonna handle a whacked out WAS when the spewing starts ???

First thing...

DO NOT count on your spouse to be any kind of parent right now. She may have been the absolute best Mother in the world leading up to this, and she may again one day set records and collect trophies for parenting. Yet for right now ?

She is gonna blow goats ass when it come to parenting, especially if she is MLC...

For now ?

You are a single parent, and should make your decisions from that standpoint.

And please...when it comes to texts and emails about the kids ??

Just answer her, whatever it is, send a reply. Even if it is just a " I received your email, and I am thinking about it". Or a simple " got it, thanks" text return. That part of it is about the kids, not the Marriage.

I'm not gonna break down the rest of your weekend, and I am sorry to hear about your Stepfather. I kinda always hated the "step" in there, other than to just clarify how this person came into one's life.

By what you describe, he was a Father to you....

Don't let what is happening around you, take away from properly mourning, and remembering this man, and whatever impact he made in your life.....



Lastly, I am going to ask Cadet to link the Validation link for you. I think it would help you immensely right now. Maybe even mention a couple books that would help you...????

Cadet, old buddy, old pal ????

B, you are going to get through this, even stronger than before. You are going to have extreme highs, and probably even more extreme lows, but you are gonna survive, and before you know it, even thrive....

You may be with your current spouse, or you may not..

Nothing that you say will change anything right now, yet everything that you say will change things right now....

You are NOT gonna talk your way out of something, that you acted your way into....

Keep takin those steps B....

[Cadet]

Lastly, I am going to ask Cadet to link the Validation link for you. I think it would help you immensely right now. Maybe even mention a couple books that would help you...????

Cadet, old buddy, old pal ????

Its in my first post on this thread, I know he already did all the homework and read it already.
Right?

[Azzork]

Blue incoming!

Hey RosaLinda (and everyone else)!

Big Update incoming...

Okay, where to start. I kinda broke down the other day after Mach1's posts. I think I had a pretty serious breakthrough on just how codependent I was towards my wife. I had completely lost myself. But, I realized pretty quickly that knowing is the first step to recovery.

So, just a sidebar, my Step-dad died this past Monday night. He's been my dad since I was in 2nd grade, and it was a huge deal for me. (The only other family member I have left is a brother who doesn't ever talk to me, everyone else has also died.) My wife's sister was in town and because of that, and our separation of course, my wife wouldn't bother to hug me or console me or anything. She did say sorry. But I really broke down Tuesday. But then by Wednesday, I realized this is my life and I have to handle it.
Im sorry to hear this, B. There are outlets for support so you dont have to "handle" everything by yourself if you need. Counselors (religious and otherwise), group support, etc. Use what you need to get through the hard times.


So, I was supposed to have my kids this weekend and had a trip planned to take them to the mountains for some early Christmas spirit. But that had to get cancelled and I had to go to a funeral. But I stayed sober, and was doing good at accepting life, my current place in life, and how things are. And I wasn't pursuing my wife.

In fact, I may have gone a step too far, as I didn't respond to her text telling me to have a safe trip. She also sent me an email about a therapy session for our 15 year old daughter that I didn't respond to.
OK. I get why you wouldnt respond to the text. What exactly were you supposed to say? MAYBE you could have replied "Thanks" or "OK" or "I will". Do remember that someone this close to you was also kind of close to her by proxy for a long time. So it's OK to have a little empathy towards her for this time.

As to the email, I hate that you didnt respond. Dont let her issues derail you from being the parent that you want to be. Whether or not the marriage lasts, you will both be that girl's parents for the rest of her life. Her wellbeing is more important than your R with your wife.

So, my wife's email to me that I didn't respond to was a very negatively worded email saying how she didn't want our daughter starting that medicine (which I take) with the between the lines implications being that she didn't want our daughter to end up like me. So, I didn't reply.
With that in mind, couldnt you have picked out the important parts and replied to those without really discussing all of the extra jabs she may have taken at you?

I drove in from Maryland (the funeral service) and headed straight over to pick up my kids (they were supposed to be with me anyway). When I got to the house, I was in a very positive mood, and was being very short worded but polite. I said Hello W right away as a greeting and was planning on being in and out very quick without any fuss and no pursuit.

Then my wife said, hey you never responded to my text or email. I said, I felt like they didn't need a response. At which point she got really snippy, and said she expected at least some common decency. Then I politely asked if we could talk. (I wanted to explain that I wasn't meaning to be rude, but that I was trying to give her the space she wanted) Then we stepped into the spare office, and she just started going off, telling how she's so stressed out about bills, Christmas presents, paying for the house, not having money, and on and on. (She makes a decent amount of money more than me, and also too 3/4 of our savings after the separation.) But I stayed calm.

I told her everything was going to be okay. I asked if she needed or wanted some money. She didn't respond.
Have you read the "Validation Cheat Sheet"? I get what you tried to do. But SOLVING her problems isnt your job and it isnt what she wants from you. Your job is to understand the stresses shes under and empathize with them. Let her ASK for money - dont offer to LOAN her money.

Then I really blundered and said we could easily fix it all by having me move back in. (UGH, WHY) I quickly retracted it, and said I know thats not what you want.
Yeah. Blech. At least you understood the problem.

Then I got really calm, and told her a bunch of stuff. The fact that I was so codependent on her on the day of our separation that I left because I thought it would fix things. The fact that I was completely lost as a man then. But that I was going through a lot of changes. That I know now, that me wanting us to get back together is what I want, me. That I know she doesn't want that. And that if I loved her truly, I would want her to have what she wants. And that I'm prepared for that now. That I won't be happy about it, but if it means that I have to be away from her, get divorced and be a single dad and she would end up with everything she wanted in life, that I would do that, because I wanted her to be happy.
Look. It's great to think and understand this. But telling her all of this kinda undoes a lot of the good of realizing it. I know you have a TON of stuff swirlign through your head. I sure did. But telling her this is so pursuing. Why would you tell her this unless you were hoping for some change in her behaviors or thoughts? As Mach said - you cant fix your past actions with words. If you want to not be codependent with her, dont TELL her you arent goign to be codependent anymore....just STOP being codependent.

So....WHY did you feel the need to spill all of this to her?

She tried to derail me a few times. She brought up the counselor and wanted me to know that she sat in the session with my daughter for a few moments and wanted the counselor to know that her father is an alcoholic and that he had tried to commit suicide at 16. (Thanks W) But, I didn't let it phase me. I stayed calm. I told her I was worried about her. That I know she has a lot going on in her head. That she is angry, and sad, and lonely. That I can see it. (She tried to sit up and look happy and pretty)
And now youre diagnosing HER? Just accept these things as truths. You dont need to tell her about them!

I told her again I cared about her, and wanted her to be okay and happy. She was getting emotional and had a couple of tears.
I wouldnt read into this too much. Im sure shes SAD about the separation and such. Doesnt mean she has any remorse or is going to change her mind.


By then, I had to go to take our 2nd daughter to a piano recital.

Tonight, I sent her a text, and told her, "I hear your concerns about finances. Lets get together over coffee and make sure everything is covered." She said, "okay, I appreciate your concern."
Good. This is a good approach.

[Mach1]

Lastly, I am going to ask Cadet to link the Validation link for you. I think it would help you immensely right now. Maybe even mention a couple books that would help you...????

Cadet, old buddy, old pal ????

Its in my first post on this thread, I know he already did all the homework and read it already.
Right?

In a perfect world, you would be correct...

In a realistic world ??

Yea.....well.....I probably haven't read everything there either : )




B, I should also mention that the process that one goes through with DBing, is that one day, your spouse will take a look back, to re-evaluate her decisions....

And when she does, it is the man that you are, and the man that you have chosen to become, that will, or will not, cause her to take a second look at you....

IF she chooses to take another look ??

Then you move from that place...

IF she chooses not to take that chance ?

Then you are already prepared, and are already living YOUR life....

[Bfice3]

Hey All,

First, thank you all for reading my posts.

Mach, yes, I was mad at you. But, I pretty quickly figured out what you were doing, and I appreciated it, after I got done breaking down, again...

Cadet: Yes, I'm reading them. But, nowhere near anything like being able to practically use them. (Validations)

On to a few other things. As for my dad, I'm mourning his loss okay I guess, it [censored] but at this point its just one more thing. And when I said I had to handle it alone...I meant without my W, not entirely alone.

On the email and text. Yes, I recognize I handled it poorly. I realize I handled the whole scene yesterday poorly. I'm working on it, trying to get better.

I sent a response email last night to my W. I said I agree with W on meds, and that counselors are people and it may require trying a few before we find a good one. I also relayed to her what I told my D(15). I spoke with my D after the counseling session and told her that I've been through a ton of counseling and medications over the years, and that I'm just now learning that there is no magic wand, no cure. That its about developing healthy habits, for your thoughts, for your physical fitness, for your work ethic, and for your spirituality that ultimately lead to a person being happy. That medications can be a temporary help, but they are not meant to be long term solutions.

Back to Mach1: Thank you for your words. I hate that this is where I've lead my life. And learning to truly accept it is hard. I'm working very hard, and taking this as the most important things I've ever done. Whether or not it will work out, I don't know. But its nice to finally have a place I can come and discuss these things. And learn.

Azzork: You are completely right. And yes...it was pursuing. God, I just want her back so bad. It hurts so much to accept and treat her like someone that isn't my wife. She was getting mad at me, and I didn't know how to handle it. She was ready for me to leave and I didn't want to leave with her being mad at me. Co-dependence.

[Bfice3]

I called her this morning. I know, pursuing. But, she didn't answer. Then she called me right back. I said I didn't know if you were busy or what your schedule, I was just calling to say hi, and see how you are doing. She said she was busy, but thank you for calling. And we said goodbye.

I was trying to restore a tiny amount of goodwill for not responding to her text and email from before. I wont call again.

[Bfice3]

W responded to my text about hearing her concerns about finances. She agreed to let me meet her early in the morning when she drops of her car to get an oil change wednesday morning.

Any tips?

I mainly want to make sure that she knows I'm willing to give her money to make sure that everything is paid for. Not a loan. Just want to make sure everything is covered.

[Bfice3]

Christmas.

So, here's a big one. I'm invited to come over Christmas eve. We are supposed to go to church around 4:00pm (I think all together) and then I will come back to the house and spend the night. Then wake up Christmas morning and do presents. They are all leaving Christmas day around noon to drive to her parents in Louisiana for about 9 days (without me).

This is a big opportunity. And I really don't want to blow it.

I guess the main thing is I just need to make sure I don't have any expectations.

[Mach1]

W responded to my text about hearing her concerns about finances. She agreed to let me meet her early in the morning when she drops of her car to get an oil change wednesday morning.

Any tips?

I mainly want to make sure that she knows I'm willing to give her money to make sure that everything is paid for. Not a loan. Just want to make sure everything is covered.

Just be careful B....

It's awfully easy to become her personal ATM. I would recommend writing down the reasons that you will give money, and decide beforehand what ones meet criteria, and which ones do not meet criteria....

when the situation arises, simply look at your list.

What that does is keeps you from reacting with emotion. The WAS is highly skilled on dealing with emotion. Most often, they will throw around the things that tug at your heartstrings, and wait for the response that they want. The stronger that YOU get, the deeper that they have to go.

She is already using the kids to get to you, and it is gonna get worse before there is any hope of it getting better...

Know that it's gonna happen, and don't let her push any of those buttons on you. Especially when it comes to money...

Christmas.

So, here's a big one. I'm invited to come over Christmas eve. We are supposed to go to church around 4:00pm (I think all together) and then I will come back to the house and spend the night. Then wake up Christmas morning and do presents. They are all leaving Christmas day around noon to drive to her parents in Louisiana for about 9 days (without me).

This is a big opportunity. And I really don't want to blow it.

I guess the main thing is I just need to make sure I don't have any expectations.

What works best for YOU ???

Don't let her be responsible for making YOUR decisions...

And don't let her hold you accountable for HER decisions...

Can you do this without any expectations ??

There isn't gonna be a Hallmark movie ending, with rainbows and magical snow falling. It is gonna be one of the hardest things to date. Even harder than moving out...

However.....it CAN be done....

And what you do this Christmas, can play a strong role in what happens next Christmas.....

[Azzork]

I called her this morning. I know, pursuing. But, she didn't answer. Then she called me right back. I said I didn't know if you were busy or what your schedule, I was just calling to say hi, and see how you are doing. She said she was busy, but thank you for calling. And we said goodbye.

I was trying to restore a tiny amount of goodwill for not responding to her text and email from before. I wont call again.

I touched the stove this morning. I know. It was hot and I got burned, but it looked so pretty.

Could have written this and I would have thought the same thing