October 11

[Bfice3]

So you always do what you are told to do?

If I say jump off the roof, you just follow my orders and jump, right?

No. But...where I was. How I've been with my wife. She was in control of everything. I was not in control. I was depressed, and a recluse, and miserable. Yes. Often, I did what she wanted. I had, and have, lost who I was, what I wanted out of life, and how to get it.

When she said she didn't want me there anymore...I dont know. I never thought it would be like this. I didn't want to fight. I ran. I was scared and hurt and afraid, and the only person in the world who I felt like could help me didn't even want me to be in the house anymore.

I was a mess. I was a weak, desperate, pitiful nothing. And I left.

So, yes. It was my choice to leave, then. But I didn't want to. I did it because I thought it was what she wanted.

[Mach1]

^^^ This is what helps....

Getting yourself out there, laid wide open, so that you can get to know you....

The "you" that you have lost over the years, not the "you" that was suffocated throughout the Marriage. The bills, the kids, the Wife, the Pope, whatever the reason...

You probably haven't been "you" in quite some time now if you are completely honest with yourself.

And that is what this DB process is about.

Finding out who you are, at your core, and becoming a better version of yourself. Dropping the behavioral patterns that plague a relationship, finding out how to love, and how to receive love, how to listen, to talk within the confines of a relationship.

And maybe, one day your spouse will turn around and look in your direction. And its about being who you want to be, when that happens.

I'm not against you B.....


Keep thinking on those question....they will help you....

[Cadet]

She was in control of everything.
I was not in control. I was depressed, and a recluse, and miserable. Yes. Often, I did what she wanted. I had, and have, lost who I was, what I wanted out of life, and how to get it.

OK - I think now you are getting to some things you need to work on.
And don't feel bad about this.
It is a typical LBS type thing that we are codependent, enabling and conflict avoiders.

Thinking that if we are nice to our partners and then EXPECTING them to be nice to us in exchange.

[tl2]

I've gone to my wife so many times over the years and said, "hey, something is wrong here, lets work on it. Lets fix this." But she never has. And now, her solution is to just separate and seemingly throw everything away.

Me too, bro. Did that years ago...while she was (unbeknownst to me) screwing another guy and planning to D me...then after she supposedly stopped and we were in MC...and then after we stopped MC...and...

The point being, you know she's not doing anything to strengthen the marriage. All you can do right now (as Cadet and Mach1 have pointed out)...is do whatever is required to focus on yourself and build a stronger you. That is the way through this.

[Bfice3]

Is it wrong to expect someone to be nice to us in exchange for being nice to them?

Codependent, enabling and conflict avoiding...definitely all describe me.

I can't help but feel bad. Not towards you, or anyone here, just in general. I feel like a loser.

I wasn't always like this.

I have to step away from the keyboard now...I'm losing control. Thank you for responding everyone. I'll be back for more punishment soon.

[Mach1]

Is it wrong to expect someone to be nice to us in exchange for being nice to them?

It isn't wrong per sey....

The most important part though....

Is to be who you are, and treat people the way that you want to be treated, REGARDLESS of how they respond to you....

[RosaLinda]

Is it wrong to expect someone to be nice to us in exchange for being nice to them?

Codependent, enabling and conflict avoiding...definitely all describe me.

That definitely describes me too. I think, B, that the most important thing that you can do for yourself right now is to put away your expectations. Not an easy thing to do, but as a codependent, enabling, conflict avoider, this is how I am trying to live my life. It is NOT easy.

Having no expectations, good OR bad, is the road to emotional freedom and health. Think about it. Disappointment, irritation, sadness, anger, are all the result of expecting people to respond to us in a particular way. Having no expectations will free us from disappointment, etc, and will keep us off the victim-martyr road to misery. Like Mach says, we should treat everyone like we want to be treated, with no expectations of a particular response.

I think (not claiming to be an expert at all) that a large part of the ruin of our marital relationships was due to having expectations that our spouses would act in a particular way (for example, treat us kindly when we treat them kindly) and then not communicating our disappointment. If someone holds their feelings in long enough, they eventually decide the whole thing is hopeless and give up. I think our WASs, including MLCers, get fed up with the disappointments and unfairness of life in general, and decide to give up on the marriage, and try to make themselves feel better by drinking, having affairs, buying sports cars, etc.

Sorry, I am just rambling, and am not trying to beat you up. None of us are, we're just trying to help you to get over this awful time in your life. We all felt like losers when our spouses declared they did not love us any more and that they were moving on to their next partner.

It's our choice to not be losers

[tl2]

Is it wrong to expect someone to be nice to us in exchange for being nice to them?

Of course not. But it IS wrong to get all bent out of shape when they do not.

It IS wrong to pursue someone with 'niceness' when they don't want it and don't reciprocate.

You wrote:

I was not in control. I was depressed, and a recluse, and miserable.

This is because you were not in control of yourself. That's what it's time to do now: get YOU back.

The first step in doing that is letting go of any unhealthy attachment you have to your W and committing to your own personal growth.

[RosaLinda]

Hey B, how are you doing?

[Bfice3]

Hey RosaLinda (and everyone else)!

Big Update incoming...

Okay, where to start. I kinda broke down the other day after Mach1's posts. I think I had a pretty serious breakthrough on just how codependent I was towards my wife. I had completely lost myself. But, I realized pretty quickly that knowing is the first step to recovery.

So, just a sidebar, my Step-dad died this past Monday night. He's been my dad since I was in 2nd grade, and it was a huge deal for me. (The only other family member I have left is a brother who doesn't ever talk to me, everyone else has also died.) My wife's sister was in town and because of that, and our separation of course, my wife wouldn't bother to hug me or console me or anything. She did say sorry. But I really broke down Tuesday. But then by Wednesday, I realized this is my life and I have to handle it.

So, I was supposed to have my kids this weekend and had a trip planned to take them to the mountains for some early Christmas spirit. But that had to get cancelled and I had to go to a funeral. But I stayed sober, and was doing good at accepting life, my current place in life, and how things are. And I wasn't pursuing my wife.

In fact, I may have gone a step too far, as I didn't respond to her text telling me to have a safe trip. She also sent me an email about a therapy session for our 15 year old daughter that I didn't respond to.

On the therapy session: Our oldest daughter is 15. My wife was pregnant before we got married, and honestly, my wife has basically secretly always blamed or held our daughter in contempt for ruining her life. My daughter, like her father, also seems to have some issues with depression/anxiety. (God, all of my stories are so long) My daughter is on the swim team for high school. But taking her to swim team is huge pain because its 7:45pm-9:00pm 4 nights a week at a pool 25 minutes from our house. When my wife and I got separated my MIL was in town. So, one night (according to my daughter) my MIL and W told my daughter they weren't taking her to swimming because she is too "F**King passive aggressive, and is cursed because she has all of the bad traits from her father". So, naturally, my daughter decided, hey I don't want to do swimming anymore. Then after my MIL left town, and I had given my daughter a lot of hugs and support she decided she would like to get back on the swim team. At which point all of her friends and coaches wanted to know what happened. My daughter told them. Then the next day we get a call from the school counselor saying my daughter had threatened to hurt herself and they recommended we get a counselor immediately. (My wife made zero attempts at doing this) I got the counselor, though the appointment couldn't be arranged until 2 weeks. The counselor recommended SSRI meds and my wife got pissed and thinks the counselor is a 'quack'.

So, my wife's email to me that I didn't respond to was a very negatively worded email saying how she didn't want our daughter starting that medicine (which I take) with the between the lines implications being that she didn't want our daughter to end up like me. So, I didn't reply.

Okay...I will try not to digress anymore.

So, here's what happened today.

I drove in from Maryland (the funeral service) and headed straight over to pick up my kids (they were supposed to be with me anyway). When I got to the house, I was in a very positive mood, and was being very short worded but polite. I said Hello W right away as a greeting and was planning on being in and out very quick without any fuss and no pursuit.

Then my wife said, hey you never responded to my text or email. I said, I felt like they didn't need a response. At which point she got really snippy, and said she expected at least some common decency. Then I politely asked if we could talk. (I wanted to explain that I wasn't meaning to be rude, but that I was trying to give her the space she wanted) Then we stepped into the spare office, and she just started going off, telling how she's so stressed out about bills, Christmas presents, paying for the house, not having money, and on and on. (She makes a decent amount of money more than me, and also too 3/4 of our savings after the separation.) But I stayed calm.

I told her everything was going to be okay. I asked if she needed or wanted some money. She didn't respond. Then I really blundered and said we could easily fix it all by having me move back in. (UGH, WHY) I quickly retracted it, and said I know thats not what you want. Then I got really calm, and told her a bunch of stuff. The fact that I was so codependent on her on the day of our separation that I left because I thought it would fix things. The fact that I was completely lost as a man then. But that I was going through a lot of changes. That I know now, that me wanting us to get back together is what I want, me. That I know she doesn't want that. And that if I loved her truly, I would want her to have what she wants. And that I'm prepared for that now. That I won't be happy about it, but if it means that I have to be away from her, get divorced and be a single dad and she would end up with everything she wanted in life, that I would do that, because I wanted her to be happy.

She tried to derail me a few times. She brought up the counselor and wanted me to know that she sat in the session with my daughter for a few moments and wanted the counselor to know that her father is an alcoholic and that he had tried to commit suicide at 16. (Thanks W) But, I didn't let it phase me. I stayed calm. I told her I was worried about her. That I know she has a lot going on in her head. That she is angry, and sad, and lonely. That I can see it. (She tried to sit up and look happy and pretty) I told her again I cared about her, and wanted her to be okay and happy. She was getting emotional and had a couple of tears.

By then, I had to go to take our 2nd daughter to a piano recital.

Tonight, I sent her a text, and told her, "I hear your concerns about finances. Lets get together over coffee and make sure everything is covered." She said, "okay, I appreciate your concern."

And I guess thats about it. (LOL) Anyone who reads all of that, good luck. I haven't even proof read it. I guess I need to, but I'm going to post it first.