October 11

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[Bfice3]

So...back like 2 or 3 weeks ago, I first contacted Divorce Care and the guy I spoke with suggested the book 'Divorce Remedy'. I didn't really know what it was at the time, but I figured it came recommended from this program, which is affiliated with the church...okay...you know what...in fact, I'll order two and give one to my wife.

So...she has a copy.

I also got her a book called ... And I know that one of her friends got her a book from some .. program.

But, I almost 100% certain my hasn't even opened a page in any of these books.

Do you think I should try to get the Divorce Remedy book, back? Without her knowledge. She most likely won't even realize its missing. Its in a stack with the other books I mentioned near the 'bills' on a counter in our kitchen.

In otherwords...the book is collecting dust.

What do you think? I could probably snag it, and have it disappear.

[Mach1]

She says I don't love her.

Is she correct ???

Seldom do I read a first post, that doesn't include someone saying how much they love their spouse...

Yours doesn't....

Everything that you posted above sounded really...convenient, and obligatory....

This may be difficult to answer, it may not be....

Do you love her ??

She says that there isn't anyone else in her life.

Soo....IF there is...

Is that a dealbreaker for you ?

Everyone, everyone, I mean everyone I talk to says I need to move on and give her the space she needs.

Everyone, everyone....

Doesn't have to live your life...

Wellwishers will tell you what THEY might do in any given situation....

At the end of the day, they aren't you...

What do YOU want ???

[Bfice3]

Do you love her ??

Yes. I love her more than anything. But, to be honest, I dont want the old her anymore than she wants the old me. I have been hurt by her lack of affection to me, withdrawn to drinking, and then pushed her away. At least that's how I see it. She just says, I'm mean and don't love her.

I don't mean to sound clinical. There's a lot of complexity and anguish and pain that I'm not really going into as yet. Its basically I guess two people who stopped trying to help each other stay in love.

I've gone to my wife so many times over the years and said, "hey, something is wrong here, lets work on it. Lets fix this." But she never has. And now, her solution is to just separate and seemingly throw everything away.

Is that a dealbreaker for you ?

If she's been with another man, then most likely yes. I've told her that. She nodded yes, as in she understood. But, we haven't had a close relationship for a while and I don't trust her. I want to. But I don't. I can forgive a lot. I can forgive her seeking affection from someone else. I don't like it, I hate it, but I understand it, and can forgive it. But, I dont think I could continue our marriage (not that its even guaranteed to continue as is) if she has gone out and had sex outside of our marriage.

What do YOU want ???

What I want? I want to hold her and kiss her and her to hold me and kiss me. I want to feel close to her again. I want her to be my best friend again! I want to smile when she walks in the room and she smiles at me. And we can finish each others sentences, and hold hands, and on and on....

I want her to love me.

But right now she doesn't. She says she loves me like a brother. And that hurts more than anything.

I want my wife back. I want my family back. I want to be in love with her, and grow old with her, and live the rest of our marriage in peace and happiness.

But..I'm in this apartment. And she's in that house.

[Mach1]

Do you love her ??

Yes. I love her more than anything. But, to be honest, I dont want the old her anymore than she wants the old me. I have been hurt by her lack of affection to me, withdrawn to drinking, and then pushed her away. At least that's how I see it. She just says, I'm mean and don't love her.

Well, I DO expect you to be honest. If it's on the internet, it MUST be true....huh ?



So, were you mean ? Did she know that you loved her ?

And whilst we are at it...

What does love mean to you ? What does it look like to you ?

How do you show it ? How do you receive it ??

I don't mean to sound clinical. There's a lot of complexity and anguish and pain that I'm not really going into as yet. Its basically I guess two people who stopped trying to help each other stay in love.

Lets just agree, that there is nothing, absolutely nothing that you can tell me about this, that will either shock or surprise me.

I've gone to my wife so many times over the years and said, "hey, something is wrong here, lets work on it. Lets fix this." But she never has. And now, her solution is to just separate and seemingly throw everything away.

To you...

she is throwing it all away...

To you....

You had a plan to fix (because YOU thought it was broken).

Now ??

She has a plan, and because it doesn't match "your" plan, it is wrong, or flawed ??

My point is, IF....If you think that she is MLC. I can 100% guarantee you that she doesn't want you to fix any of her problems for her. And probably hasn't in quite some time.

Is that a dealbreaker for you ?

If she's been with another man, then most likely yes. I've told her that. She nodded yes, as in she understood. But, we haven't had a close relationship for a while and I don't trust her. I want to. But I don't. I can forgive a lot. I can forgive her seeking affection from someone else. I don't like it, I hate it, but I understand it, and can forgive it. But, I dont think I could continue our marriage (not that its even guaranteed to continue as is) if she has gone out and had sex outside of our marriage.

You should prolly figure that one out first.

Because if you cannot forgive, then there is no need to put yourself through this, only to find out that you will always hold that inside of you....

What do YOU want ???

What I want? I want to hold her and kiss her and her to hold me and kiss me. I want to feel close to her again. I want her to be my best friend again! I want to smile when she walks in the room and she smiles at me. And we can finish each others sentences, and hold hands, and on and on....

I want her to love me.

But right now she doesn't. She says she loves me like a brother. And that hurts more than anything.

I want my wife back. I want my family back. I want to be in love with her, and grow old with her, and live the rest of our marriage in peace and happiness.

Why do you want that ??

Security ??

Guilt ??

Fear ??

But..I'm in this apartment. And she's in that house.

I do believe that was your choice ??

You fought, had a hissy fit, threatened to leave, she took you up on your offer, and now you are in that apartment...

So please try to not sound like a victim of this ???


Was that a pretty common theme to how you communicated ??

[Bfice3]

Is this supposed to be helping?

[Bfice3]

Yes. It was a pretty common way to how we communicated.

[Bfice3]

It wasn't my choice to leave. I did drive away, but i left everything at the house. When I came back a couple of hours later she told me to leave, that she didn't want me at the house anymore.

[Bfice3]

were you mean ? Did she know that you loved her ?

Yes, I have been mean. Yes, she has known that I loved her.

What does love mean to you ? What does it look like to you ?

How do you show it ? How do you receive it ??

I don't know how to begin to answer these questions in a forum like this. Compassion, Patience, Spontaneity, Forgiveness, Caring. I don't know what to say. Am I good at showing love? I dont know. I don't know anymore.

Why do you want that ??

Yes, comfort, security, happiness, emotional connection. I don't know. Somehow, I feel like every answer I'm giving is suddenly wrong...in fact, I feel like I'm having this conversation with my wife.

What is it that you can see in my words this quickly that I can't see?

I'm not trying to sound like a victim. Though, feeling like a victim is a problem I have. I'm learning to recognize that. I'm learning that, being that victim is a failure of my pride. I know that I've done many things wanting to get her reaction, to fuel my pride and/or victimhood. Almost always I was disappointed and left hurt. That is a fault of mine for sure.

[Cadet]

It wasn't my choice to leave. I did drive away, but i left everything at the house.
When I came back a couple of hours later she told me to leave, that she didn't want me at the house anymore.

So you always do what you are told to do?

If I say jump off the roof, you just follow my orders and jump, right?