I really didn't think through the implications of FO but maybe my subconscious was telling me I needed to have more of a F off attitude. Thats what my therapist told me on Monday, in a much more professional way of course.
Fo, you have really given me a reason to look forward to typing your name! You were even more clever than I originally thought!
Mutatio - I like the ideas that Fo and Roiste shared from Caliguy. I can definitely start with that.
I also thought Fo had a good point with baggage on the inside reflecting outside. I am really thinking that one through, because the implications are pretty staggering for me.
Ancaire and Mutatio, someone recently pointed this out to Mutatio in a different way. I can't remember who, maybe JellyB? Someone was talking about the energy keeping things status quo. Same concept. It must have been bouncing around in my brain for the last few days, because I just "got" it.
My H is carrying around this blame and anger and that is spilling over into his presence. I am carrying around a defeated heartbroken weight, I am sure that is spilling over into mine.
Detachment sure would be a blessing to us all- I am seeing now how it would help our situations in ways beyond our own ability to cope. We are perpetuating our own dysfunction by not detaching it, perpetuating a mood and reactions in others, probably in ways that we are not even aware.
So how to detach? We all know GAL, we all know "fake it till you make it" but how do we really and truly drop that rope? It is hitting me like a ton of bricks right now that I need to do this, and also, you all do to. We need to clear our minds and start with a fresh, positive, slate and attract that same kind of energy to ourselves.
OK. So, the CaliGuy list idea is actually 3 lists:
1) A list of things you dont like about yourself 2) A list of things you DO like about yourself 3) A list of things you admire in other members of the same sex
Then, the goal is to replace all of the items from 1 with items from 2 and 3.
V, I'm going to throw out these facts with no dialog about them. Your wisdom will be able to connect the dots.
From previously:
You are getting a lot of support and great advice.
I would like to explore some of the early posts we shared. It has taken a while for me to formulate my thoughts.
In essence we went for the obvious last time, I think we have some tricker stuff to explore.
This work is about you, that is the best thing you can do for you.
You described your R as being a play in four acts, you are now moving into act 5.
Your W may not see the R in the same way.
Let's see if I have this right
1. The loving phase 2. The abusive phase 3. The beat Mutatio up phase 4. The WW breakaway phase
You described these as clearly delineated in your description. I can't see it that way, phase 2 was when WW switched off, and stayed switched off, I think. MWD describes this clearly in her opening chapters of both DR and DB.
There are 4 layers of work to do each layer has its deficits and advantages. This is a wonderful opportunity to atone and rebuild.
Mutatio these layers can be useful to you to start to rebuild yourself, to help you detach and to unravel your own feelings and involvement.
To build love for yourself, so you become confident in yourself. To become.
Easier to be hard on men learned from father, my sisters were not treated this way.
This explains a few things to me. Firstly why you appeased FIL, especially when FIL didn't ask for this in act 1. I think there is a good chance that quite a lot of your behaviours in acts 1 and 2 stem from the prologue. They stem from your dad putting undue 'hardness' on you.
Incidentally parents like this put a different sort of pressure on daughters which can be equally destructive in my view.
Have you ever discussed this with your siblings? You may find that they are aware of it and it could be insightful.
In which ways was your dad tougher on you?
Did he physically abuse you in any way or was this overt criticism?
Can you give me an example?
Did not achieve my highest potential, father hard on me, I was hard on son till I realized it.
what did you see as your highest potential? How did you not achieve it?
Did you buy his measure of success?
What as an adult is your measure of success?
Well done for breaking the cycle, it's likely your father was mimicking his own father.
Insecure of myself, not smart enough, not good enough, inadequate.
OK so this is self criticism holding yourself to standards that are so unrealistic no one could achieve them.
The great news is that these are beliefs, beliefs which are based on unfounded realisations will crash when challenged with cognitive methods. It is a question of identifying each limiting belief and crashing it logically.
So let's take a belief which says you must pass your school exams 100% score. I doubt if any of your classmates did that.
Suppose another one was that you must be a brilliant sportsman as well, a football jock as well as being 100% on exams.
This I would suspect is your father trying to succeed through you to appease his own father or mother or parent figure.
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Mutatio the worst damage often isn't done by the hyper critical or demanding parent but by the parent who stands by and let's it happen. Your mother's role in this could be very important. If she let your dad criticise you and then either she supported him or appeased you afterwards. That's a poor dynamic indeed.
I have read through your threads again and can't track much about the early interactions with your sisters or mum. This may mean the female role models in your life are seen as insignificant leading to your petulance in act 3.
There is much to read through in your statements and I am still working my way through your earlier posts with the new insights.
It seems that your beliefs go back earlier and are more likely to be found limiting in your progress. It doesn't have to be limiting you if we address them.
Are you currently seeing an IC? If not a CBT based therapist may help you best with limiting beliefs. I think so.
Resolving FOO issues, is likely to cause great shift.
I am still evaluating Mutatio.
Let us identify the beliefs that support the limitations and ask is this reasonable?
For example: Is it reasonable that I had to be a super jock? Was that what I wanted to be?
Is it reasonable that I became a multi millionaire by the age of 25?
What are the values and standards that are important to me?
At the end of my life what will be the measures I hold myself to? Are these realistic?
Do I set myself up with bigger, better targets that I could never achieve? And if I do, then I become more target orientated?
Am I trying to prove myself? Make myself fit? Endlessly trying to prove myself to someone who may never be satisfied?
Do I measure myself on what I achieve other than for who I am?
These are questions that Mutatio is likely to want to explore.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Have you ever discussed this with your siblings? I have 3 sisters. Oldest is 16 months younger. She was asthmatic and high maintenance. My mother says she spent majority of child care time with her since she was so difficult. My hunch is she was my fathers favorite. My next sister was 6 years younger. She said to me she didn't know how I could endure my fathers abuse. My youngest sister was the baby and was probably my fathers next favorite. She thought my father was a pain in the a$$.
In which ways was your dad tougher on you? He was tougher on me because I wouldn't give him what he wanted, good grades. I did enough to get C's no more. My sisters all did their work and got good grades. They did what he wanted. He rode me harder because I resisted his wishes.
Did he physically abuse you in any way or was this overt criticism? I was abused verbally. He was not physically abusive to the children. He was not verbally abusive to my sisters but would go on rants. He was verbally abusive to my mother and I saw him hit her once. He would punch our dog.
Can you give me an example? He would yell at me in front of my mother "you son of a b!tch"
what did you see as your highest potential? How did you not achieve it? I actually was an intelligent kid and could have be an A's and a couple B's type student. I understood everything in school but because of my father behavior, I would not give him what he wanted, for me to get better grades. I would not give him what he was so hungry for. I could not reward his behavior.
Did you buy his measure of success? Good grades in school are important. I knew it then and I know it now. I could not get past my disdain for his behavior.
What as an adult is your measure of success? In one word, family. It is the most important aspect of ones life. How you treat your children. How you treat your wife. To lead a good, kind compassionate life.
Are you currently seeing an IC? If not a CBT based therapist may help you best with limiting beliefs. She is a CBT based therapist and uses Schema therapy. I like the schema therapy.
What are the values and standards that are important to me? I believe in honesty, integrity, kindness, commitment, character, perserverance, loyalty and some that I can't think of.
At the end of my life what will be the measures I hold myself to? Are these realistic? Was I a good man. Was I a good husband. Was I a good father. These are realistic measures.
Do I set myself up with bigger, better targets that I could never achieve? And if I do, then I become more target orientated? No
Am I trying to prove myself? Make myself fit? Endlessly trying to prove myself to someone who may never be satisfied? No
Do I measure myself on what I achieve other than for who I am? A little, I wonder what I could have achieved if I had chose to apply myself to my studies.
Vanilla, I had a thought while answering your questions. I think this is relevant to my situation. The schema, Subjugation of Needs: Suppression of one's preferences, decisions, and desires. I think this is a issue for me.
Sending you strength Mutatio. You're a man I look up to highly on here simply for the words you write and the way you speak with others.
I think your measures of success are also what every man should aspire to first and foremost. We need men like you in the world to show us the path of what a good man is.
Keep striving Mutatio, you are still emerging too. There's a breakthrough waiting for you that's going to come when how your wife treats you is no longer an ingredient in how successful you want to be in the world. Easier said than done I know.
There's a warrior's spirit in there that uses the pen instead of the sword. Forge bravely ahead Mutatio.
PP
M 39 W 36 T5 M3 BD - 1/15 Separated - Same Day Served 9/15 D finalized 6/17
Hi everyone, I won't be around today. I am preforming a labor of love. I am going to drive up to Boston. Load my daughter and all her things into my car. Then drive back home. She normally takes Amtrak to and from school during the year. I am moving her completely out because she is enrolled in the study abroad program. She is with us until dinnertime Christmas Day. Then she's off. She is meeting a friend in London, traveling through Europe and will spend New Years Eve in Berlin. Then she is back to England and up to Scotland. She will be studying the next semester at The University of Edinburgh. I will not see her again until about Memorial Day. I will miss her, but not today.
Thank you for your kind words PP, I have learned a lot from you my friend. If your ever in the North East you should let me know, we could have grab a bite to eat.
Mu, enjoy the day with your daughter! I'm sure you will miss her, but think of how exciting it will be for her. I'm glad you are able to give and help her do something so great.
You're a great man mu. Don't lose sight of that
35 3 boys Not my circus, not my monkeys anymore....
