WW is onboard with trying to save the M

[JGuy]

Previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2623444&page=1

My DB journey continues. Summary of current sitch is that my W has ended the most recent EA, has had no contact with the OM for several weeks. She has committed to honesty after having previously hidden a PA that happened 2 years ago and also hiding her doubts about me since even before we were married.

We are both doing IC and MC and it seems to be helping, slowly. My W still says that she doesn't desire me, and isn't sure if she ever did. The good news is that she does love me and wants to try everything to save the M and bring her desire back. She has been working on herself with the help of IC and I am already noticing a difference. She has been more interested in spending time together and is more willing to compromise and work through issues and conflicts than she was before.

I have also been working on myself and have uncovered some very deep personal issues to do with my difficult childbirth that have caused me to fear abandonment and to be excessively attached to SO's throughout my life. I feel like I am only scratching the surface so far and I'm finding it very difficult and confusing to navigate these deep feelings, even with the help of IC. This is making it very hard for me to detach from my W and I get overwhelmed by a visceral fear of being alone and abandoned without my W, even though she has treated me so badly in many ways. I can see that my wound is preventing me from becoming strong and independent and setting boundaries. It is making it hard to focus on myself and on GAL. Although my mind has accepted the reality of my sitch, I feel like the emotional part of me is still in denial and just wants to stay attached to my W at all costs. I have thus far been unsuccessful in taming that part of myself, moving through the pain to acceptance and letting go. It feels much like asking an infant to let go of its mother... impossible. Due to this very difficult wound that I'm dealing with, I find myself crashing once every few days in emotional despair and just wanting to give up due to the agony. I keep on picking myself and forcing myself to carry on, not necessarily out of choice but because I honestly don't know what else I can do.

I am trying to follow Sandi's rules and not pursue my W. I have not completely avoided talking to my W about the M and our future, since my W seems to want to talk about it too and some of our conversations seem to result in us becoming closer, and more clear about what we need to work on individually. My W has said that she misses me and the familiarity of our love and our affection. So, we have an agreement that when we are both comfortable, we cuddle and share non-sexual affection in the mornings. We are in separate bedrooms so this takes the form of one of us going to the other's room. When this happens, the desire gap is very evident to me and it has been hard for me feeling rejected when I sense the desire gap. I do not act on these feelings, but I feel rejected nonetheless. I am slowly finding that easier to deal with and get used to.

At this stage, I feel inclined try pulling back a bit further and pursue her even less, not initiate talking about the M but only let her initiate those talks. Also, not getting too excited when she shows a small sign of wanting to be closer, and making sure that I am the one to end our moments of connecting before she does. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to follow Sandi's rules more rigorously. I think the see-saw effect definitely applies to my sitch and although I'm better than I was three weeks ago, I am still the one who is pursuing more than she does.

That's all for now. As always, I'm interested in hearing suggestions as well as just getting some good old empathy from people who can relate to how hard this is!

[Rain75]

JGuy...I am so happy for you that your wife has ended all contact with OM. I can only dream of that. And it is so great that she is being honest with you and wants to work on herself and your MR. As for your work with IC..it sounds hard. But you can only come out on the other end of that as a better man and H.

I wish you all the best.
Rain

[JGuy]

As was said previously, nobody here is judging you. I think you know that already. This feels like trolling to get a response. But I'll bite anyway.

I do feel like GB was judging me. It really hurt when GB extended warm support and then as soon as I revealed that I'm not exclusive to Christianity, that I'm into astrology and the pathwork, GB withdrew that warm support and basically abandoned me. It really did hurt and took me a couple days to overcome. I make myself very vulnerable by bearing it all on these forums at the most vulnerable point in my life. I need reassurance that there are good people here who won't judge me even if my beliefs are different. I don't know if that counts as trolling, but yeah, I'm sensitive right now. So thank you again Azzork for sticking with me.

Not much has really changed with my sitch. The pain isn't really any less. I have been doing OK with not pursuing my W but I haven't withdrawn completely.
what do you mean 'withdrawn'? Is anybody advising you to pull back? My understanding is that your goal is just to stop moving; not move away...

By 'I haven't withdrawn completely' I mean that emotionally I still feel very attached to my W, inappropriately so given the reality of my sitch. I still pursue her a bit more than I think I should, and I find it hard to stay focused on myself and not her. I elaborated on this in my previous post.

We have continued with both IC and MC. My W is still really scared about losing the M and wants to work on it, but just doesn't know if she'll ever desire me.
So, how do you feel about this? She doesnt want to lose the MARRIAGE, but doesnt desire YOU. It doesnt have to all happen right now, but think about this for a bit.

Thinking about the fact that she doesn't desire me leads me to a dark place where I just want to close my heart, give up, get a D. At some unconscious level I feel very attached to her still, and the though of her not wanting me sends me into an emotional tailspin. My mind can see things objectively, but that doesn't seem to help my emotions. I'm not sure if that makes sense... honestly I'm pretty confused myself. I flip between feeling hopeful and holding myself together and then crashing and wanting to give up. Back and forth every day or two. I suspect that the deep emotional wound from feelings of abandonment during my birth experience have something to do with why this is so difficult for me. From the advice I'm getting from other DBers, it seems like I have a much harder time than some people do with the first steps of emotional processing to come into reality and step out of the denial stage.

It is excruciating being stuck in this place where I'm holding onto hope while keeping my heart open, yet I feel constant pain of rejection from her not desiring me the way I desire her.
What rejection are you going through right now? I sure hope you arent trying to sleep with her at the moment...

All of my feelings of sexual attraction to her are still there and are stronger than ever. I do not act on them, but the desire gap is very evident, so I feel rejected even though I am not acting on my desire. I think this might be lessening slowly, though, as I adjust to the new reality of my M in limbo.

I understand this might take awhile. I find it very hard to detach and not be in pain all day, and it interferes with my ability to work and to do other GAL activities.
OK, so your goal is to be attractive to her, right? How is this kind of behavior going to attract ANYONE?

Exactly, I agree and this makes me feel even more hopeless. Occasionally, after a really good cry and praying out of compassion for myself, I feel like a sense of grace comes over me and I am able to come back to myself and feel strong and like doing GAL stuff. In that state, my W seems more attracted to me. That only lasts for a short while, however, and it is very elusive. Not something I can easily summon on demand. I'd love it I could find a way to stay there, but most of the time I am stuck flipping between attachment and withdrawal.

Giving up and getting a D looks attractive in my low moments where I feel like I just can't deal with this limbo.
What, exactly, would getting divorced solve? Will you stop feeling any of this pain just by being 'divorced'?

I do feel like it would be easier if I could just get on with the process of getting over her. If we didn't live in the same house anymore I wouldn't have to see her all the time and it would be easier to move on and pick up the pieces of my heart. Living in this limbo is like having it broken again, day after day. As long as I keep my heart open to her the pain of abandonment and rejection is constant. Is there some way to protect myself from that pain without closing my heart to her? If so I am missing it. Again, I wonder if it must have to do with my wound and my mothering/attachment issue.

It feels so futile to go through all of this pain of waiting and trying to keep my heart open when she may never desire me in the end, even if we do work on ourselves and change for the better.
Wait, what? Read that again. You said:
I can change for the better, but it isnt worth it if I dont get my W back.
If thats truly your attitude, then theres nothing any of us can really say to help you. You need to be the better, more attractive JGuy to even have a chance. To say that the work you put in isnt worth it unless SHE changes HER mind is ridiculous. You have ZERO control over that.

You're right. I'm having a really hard time with this. I am still really attached to her and I have a hard time putting myself first and letting go and accepting that I have no control over her. I can see how unrealistic it is, yet my emotions won't budge. I can see that I need to grow up in some way that I never did, but I'm not sure how. I do feel like as I spend more time getting into these feelings and observing them, really taking a hard look at myself, I am slowly getting a clearer picture of what is going on inside of me. So far, however, I haven't been able to figure out what to do about it to actually heal my wound and grow up. Perhaps I am on the right track and this just takes awhile. I am scared that it will be too late to save my M, if indeed this is why my W is not attracted to me. What a terrible bind!

So here's the thing: When my inner child is screaming and insists that he wants my W and nothing else will do, how do I redirect that need into a more healthy channel? Ignoring my inner child doesn't work. I can't kill my inner child... and I can't snap my fingers to make him grow up. I am reading many books that suggest I never received the nurturing that I needed from my mother, and so I never progressed to develop a healthy self-nurturing instinct, and never went through the natural process of detachment from my mother during adolescence. Instead, I grew up with my inner child unconsciously attaching to my SO's. This is extremely difficult for me now as it's all buried in my unconscious... I feel so incapable, and yet I fear that saving my M depends on it. God help me!!

[JGuy]

JGuy...I am so happy for you that your wife has ended all contact with OM. I can only dream of that. And it is so great that she is being honest with you and wants to work on herself and your MR. As for your work with IC..it sounds hard. But you can only come out on the other end of that as a better man and H.

I wish you all the best.
Rain

Thank you, Rain. I needed that encouragement. I took a quick look at your first post and I am so sorry to hear about how rough your situation is. I will read up on your thread more later. I wish you the best too!

[Azzork]

I do feel like GB was judging me. It really hurt when GB extended warm support and then as soon as I revealed that I'm not exclusive to Christianity, that I'm into astrology and the pathwork, GB withdrew that warm support and basically abandoned me. It really did hurt and took me a couple days to overcome. I make myself very vulnerable by bearing it all on these forums at the most vulnerable point in my life. I need reassurance that there are good people here who won't judge me even if my beliefs are different. I don't know if that counts as trolling, but yeah, I'm sensitive right now. So thank you again Azzork for sticking with me.
My point was that saying things like "Nobody is posting. It must be my beliefs. I guess Ill just have to go elsewhere." feels manipulative. Theres many reasons that you wont get replies. A lot has to do with your....visiblity...here. The more that you reach out by posting on your threads and on other's threads, the more replies you will get. Staying in your own little cubby hole and posting infrequently wont generate a ton of replies.

By 'I haven't withdrawn completely' I mean that emotionally I still feel very attached to my W, inappropriately so given the reality of my sitch. I still pursue her a bit more than I think I should, and I find it hard to stay focused on myself and not her. I elaborated on this in my previous post.
Just because something is hard doesnt mean that you should avoid it. Im guessing that if you go farther in not pursuing her, that you will be able to emotionally separate better. You mention a lot about your histories and feelings and such, and honestly, that doesnt mean a whole lot to me. Im trying to tell you what works. Its your choice whether to do it or not.

Thinking about the fact that she doesn't desire me leads me to a dark place where I just want to close my heart, give up, get a D. At some unconscious level I feel very attached to her still, and the though of her not wanting me sends me into an emotional tailspin. My mind can see things objectively, but that doesn't seem to help my emotions. I'm not sure if that makes sense... honestly I'm pretty confused myself. I flip between feeling hopeful and holding myself together and then crashing and wanting to give up. Back and forth every day or two. I suspect that the deep emotional wound from feelings of abandonment during my birth experience have something to do with why this is so difficult for me. From the advice I'm getting from other DBers, it seems like I have a much harder time than some people do with the first steps of emotional processing to come into reality and step out of the denial stage.
Nope. Its hard for everyone. But it wont just 'happen'. YOU need to make it happen. YOU need to work at it.

All of my feelings of sexual attraction to her are still there and are stronger than ever. I do not act on them, but the desire gap is very evident, so I feel rejected even though I am not acting on my desire. I think this might be lessening slowly, though, as I adjust to the new reality of my M in limbo.
It sounds like even though you are not actively trying to sleep with her, that you are still pursuing way too much such that your feelings are getting hurt. You know her feelings; why are you pushing to make her express them?

Exactly, I agree and this makes me feel even more hopeless. Occasionally, after a really good cry and praying out of compassion for myself, I feel like a sense of grace comes over me and I am able to come back to myself and feel strong and like doing GAL stuff. In that state, my W seems more attracted to me. That only lasts for a short while, however, and it is very elusive. Not something I can easily summon on demand. I'd love it I could find a way to stay there, but most of the time I am stuck flipping between attachment and withdrawal.
So if you KNOW your W is more attracted o you in that state, why dont you stay there? How do you feel about YOURSELF while you are in that state? Think about what behaviors get you to that point....and do them.

I do feel like it would be easier if I could just get on with the process of getting over her. If we didn't live in the same house anymore I wouldn't have to see her all the time and it would be easier to move on and pick up the pieces of my heart. Living in this limbo is like having it broken again, day after day. As long as I keep my heart open to her the pain of abandonment and rejection is constant. Is there some way to protect myself from that pain without closing my heart to her? If so I am missing it. Again, I wonder if it must have to do with my wound and my mothering/attachment issue.
In all serious, how does the legal condition of being divorced help you do any of that. It wont changehow you feel about her or your marriage. That stuff is completely unrelated to the legal side...No matter what, thats work you have to do.

You're right. I'm having a really hard time with this. I am still really attached to her and I have a hard time putting myself first and letting go and accepting that I have no control over her. I can see how unrealistic it is, yet my emotions won't budge. I can see that I need to grow up in some way that I never did, but I'm not sure how. I do feel like as I spend more time getting into these feelings and observing them, really taking a hard look at myself, I am slowly getting a clearer picture of what is going on inside of me. So far, however, I haven't been able to figure out what to do about it to actually heal my wound and grow up. Perhaps I am on the right track and this just takes awhile. I am scared that it will be too late to save my M, if indeed this is why my W is not attracted to me. What a terrible bind!
It does take a while. Stop worrying about saving your marriage. Worry about saving you.

So here's the thing: When my inner child is screaming and insists that he wants my W and nothing else will do, how do I redirect that need into a more healthy channel? Ignoring my inner child doesn't work. I can't kill my inner child... and I can't snap my fingers to make him grow up. I am reading many books that suggest I never received the nurturing that I needed from my mother, and so I never progressed to develop a healthy self-nurturing instinct, and never went through the natural process of detachment from my mother during adolescence. Instead, I grew up with my inner child unconsciously attaching to my SO's. This is extremely difficult for me now as it's all buried in my unconscious... I feel so incapable, and yet I fear that saving my M depends on it. God help me!!
Im not at all involved in psychology or anything like that. I dont really care much about your 'inner child'. The way I see it is you fake it until you make it. Just start doing things....after enough time, they will feel natural. I want for you to start DOING instead of just thinking about doing.

[gonegrl]

JGuy, there is a book called 12 steps to self parenting that a friend of mine found helpful. I haven't read it myself. But its worth a look.

Also, I agree with Azz that you need to "fake it until you make it." I am still faking it, lol. But it does get easier to fake as time goes on, and in certain aspects I have succeeded. For example, H told me I was socially retarded at parties. I have been to about 10 parties since and I fake it, just go into actress mode and I can honestly say the last party I attended I didn't really feel like I was faking very much, it has become more second nature to me. I am still however faking a lot of the detachment stuff, still so much in love with my H and trying to act like I am calm and ok with things. Not easy to do, but easier than it was.

Hope that helps.

[JGuy]

Thanks for the replies, Azzork and Pho. I guess what I have to do feels very counter-intuitive, but I suppose that's what faking it till I make it is all about. Anyhow, I think this helps to at least give me a compass.

The one thing that seems to be working is reaching that state of grace that is so elusive. So, I suppose I can focus on doing what gets me there... breathing, slowing down, feeling my pain and just being with it.

I can appreciate that the psychology explanations aren't necessary when at the end of the day all that matters is I do what I need to do.

I added the book Pho suggested to my wishlist on Amazon... will check it out! Another one I have found very helpful is Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul.

I think Azzork you are right. I really just need to focus on saving myself first. That is my best shot at saving my M, indeed.

[Zues126]

Please read this post. It's a little long and rough but check it out.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...861#Post2471861

Any similarities?

[JGuy]

Please read this post. It's a little long and rough but check it out.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...861#Post2471861

Any similarities?

Wow, yes Zeus... my pattern is very similar! Thanks for reaching out. I will read more of your thread.

With my W I didn't really have a destructive pattern quite like the one you describe. For years I was pretty tuned out to just how unsatisfied she was. As soon as she dropped the bomb by admitting the affairs she'd had, my comfortable pattern of letting my inner child be attached to her became an enormous source of pain as I suddenly had to grapple with the realization that the woman who I thought I could trust and be so vulnerable with was in fact betraying me and doing the most emotionally hurtful thing that anyone could ever do to their spouse. It was like a complete re-enactment of the abandonment I experienced as a child. It's like having to deal with two traumas at once. The current trauma of my W cheating on me, as well as a much deeper, older trauma that I never healed and didn't even realize was there.

[sandi2]

I am on my phone, so bear with me as I try to say a few words. First, one poster's opinion does not reflect everyone's feelings here. Second, in order to keep replies coming, you need to post often or some think you've left.

I hope you will continue with IC because your vulnerabulity and emotional issues could be a hinderance in piecing you MR. The W needs a H who has and shows inner strength. A W needs H who is stronger than she is. Let her lean on you,okay? Even if you have to fake it, be the strong one.

If she is truly trying to save the M, and if she stopped all contact with OM, she will go through withdrawal. She may experience depression. It is normal. It is a process she has to go through.

She will need your support. Don't smother or be clingy, but don't pull away.

I will cont. shortly.