dday, gaining traction

[sandi2]

That's right. She has chosen this path. Today one thing my DB coach said to me that is really sticking with me is
"She has chosen this path. I need to get out of way and allow her to experience the natural consequences of her adult choices."
Basically, I can't protect her. Don't clean up her poop.

Funny, I've said the same thing, and didn't charge for it.
At least you got it. Glad it helped.

[Dawgs]

I can tell you for me it has been cycles of ever-increasing times of "being ok" to ever-decreasing times where I've gotten down about things. Counseling has helped tremendously, as has being able to talk to certain friends or family...particularly when I'm tempted to talk to her. I think a lot of the reason we have a hard time not communicating with the WAS during this time is because they're typically the first person we talk to about things when life is 'normal'. Hard to break that.

I have those cycles, but they seem to be slowly disappearing into not being OK anymore. Maybe its because her move is coming up so fast. I don't know. I am most scared of that. I don't want her to go. 10 years we have been together and now I may only get to see her on the weekends. This [censored].

[dday]

That is exactly right. My W had always been my best friend. I have been in counseling since june, and it started with working on expressing my feelings and not bottling things. But, this happened at the same time W quit trying or even pretending to try.

So, sadly, unless she decides to make us work she will never even see the growth I have made there.

[tl2]

So, sadly, unless she decides to make us work she will never even see the growth I have made there.

If the growth is real, not dependent on her or what she does, and it is reflected in your behavior she will see some of it if she has time and space. You are around each other enough because of the kids that there are plenty of opportunities for her to see things. She may not choose to return to the M, but those changes are for you anyway.

[Dawgs]

Hi DDay!

So, sadly, unless she decides to make us work she will never even see the growth I have made there.

I, too, am struggling with this exact thing. My W is convinced that we need to start over from the very beginning - as in no relationship at all - and see if anything can be built from there. My question, as like yours, is that until she decides to open her eyes, she won't see my growth, either. For the longest - and still to some extent - it has always been that everyone else can work on themselves and change but me. Our counselor has asked her about that and she has no real answer, either. Just how are we supposed to have growth if they wont participate? I know our growth is for us, but we all have admit that our growth is also to save our marriage. Kind of like a drunk who gets the ultimatum to sober up or the W is leaving - sometimes it takes that wakeup call to stir action that one never knew needed to happen...and some (as in my W) can't accept that. Ugh.

[mutatio]

"So, sadly, unless she decides to make us work she will never even see the growth I have made there."

This is my world also dday. I have surrender to this fact. I live my improvements and hope they make a difference. This is the only path I can see out of here. Be strong

[dday]

You all are right. The improvements were brought about because of W, but I have stuck with them for me, my boys, and everyone else I interact with. It's just disheartening that the one person I want to show that to, says that it's too late for it to matter.

[sandi2]

Just how are we supposed to have growth if they wont participate? I know our growth is for us, but we all have admit that our growth is also to save our marriage.

You have personal growth. You have marital growth. You may have personal growth without the marital growth.

I haven't been where you guys are, so I can't say I know how you feel. My question is, would you make the personal changes (growth) if you had known, without a doubt, that you and W were done forever? It must be difficult to focus on your personal improvements without hoping it will have a positive effect on the M. Can you even emotionally separate from that possibility?

Here's what I have seen in the past. The men who made changes in order to effect the MR, seemed to backslide a lot easier. There have been those who would come back (after reconciling with their W) and say they got another BD......then admit they got lazy or stopped working on the changes altogether.

If the improvements are not for yourself, first, and then carried over to the relation.......how could it hope to stick? What a waste of energy and hard work if the person is doing it for their S and then the MR doesn't work out.

I'm pulling for all of you.

[gs9]

It's just disheartening that the one person I want to show that to, says that it's too late for it to matter.

dday, Believe 0 of what she says and only half what she does. It's never too late. Even if you D you'll always be connected. It's never too late. She will see your growth. She may deny seeing it but she will see it.

[dday]

Thanks Sandi! It is hard to do the work, without seeing any reaction from W in my case. But, it has benefits outside of the M, that I don't ever want to lose. I have a better r with all my kids. Closer to friends and family. A little more outgoing and less reclusive. Experiencing life a little more.

So, whether W comes back or not... I WANT these changes to stick