New or false hope?

[Painter]

Julie, he sounds very entitled. Entitlement can create so many problems, it makes the person selfish and lack empathy. Every time I watch an interview with a criminal, I notice how entitled they are.

I would say that it's part of my H's problem as well - it shows in different ways than with your H, but it sounds like the same underlying mechanism. Just the other day, H said to me that he shouldn't have to ask me to fix him dinner (I should just do it). I have heard him say similar things over the years - 'I shouldn't have to' this or that.

I think it's just so difficult for those of us who do not feel entitled to understand that someone can actually be that way, so we keep forgetting what they do and think it will be different next time.

[JulieH]

Zues, I agree with you about your definition of abuse. Neither of us have ever feared for our safety. Often times I think of your card analogy. There is little that is making me want to work things out at this point so it will be easy for me to see if he is genuine. I have to remember that just as much as I see him as selfish he sees me as something equally as bad.

[Zues126]

Thank you Julie. No reason to move quickly.

Please see my posts on Painter's thread and my own.

I continue to be shocked by the posts I am reading talking about deserving better than this and agreeing that H is a bad guy. No one's happy because everyone's spouses are having issues with entitlement? Maybe we're the ones entitled for expecting a spouse to act less entitled.

It's no wonder the divorce rate is so high when our culture is so indoctrinated with expectations that our DB forum members go along with it.

[Zues126]

By the way...I do know how tough it is. If I was still married and the marriage was sexless I know I would never leave...but I'd have a HELL of a time serving my wife selflessly.

Not saying I can walk the walk, that's why I know I'm not ready to be in an R. Those are just my thoughts on the right path.

Hang in and take care.

[JulieH]

Painter, yes. I am trying to get my point across and argue my side and it simply does not matter to him. My logic never mattered to him because it was all about what he wanted. Like with the child support. Like with a lot of stuff.

He was enabled his entire life by his mother (who enables everyone)

[Painter]

It's difficult to communicate when your priorities are so different. I have experimented with asserting myself differently at times with H, and it seemed to actually work, but I had to be a person I didn't like, so I ended up reverting back to my real self.

Sometimes I also feel like it is the role I have as wife that makes him act the way he does. That it's not really about me so much as about what I represent. I probably feel that way because he changed so radically from the day I moved in.

[JulieH]

Zues, I have to remind myself that he feels he was not getting his needs met but my needs weren't met either and I did not leave him. I was 100% loyal to him throughout relationship.

But I still don't understand his behavior. And trust me I question myself as well. I am constantly back and forth and a big part of me wants to hear anything that will stop me from completely ending it.

But the money and neglect is really hard for me to get. The only reason there is chance is because most likely no affair.

[JulieH]

JulieH,

I say feel all of what you are feeling, spew it out here. Feel the betrayal and the sense of his selfishness. And when the emotions have settled you can start to evaluate the bigger picture. . Yes. My emotions are all over the place. I am angry and I am vilifying and coming up with tons of things to justify. He told me he would not pay for insurance anymore so no surprise.

Lady V always says it's never just about money. There is likely something deeper here. It may well be worth digging around in what money means to you. Often if we look back in our FOO (Family Of Origin) we will discover some hidden gems. Maybe H FOO will explain some things

divorce busting coach once mentioned she thought child support issue was a power struggle. I don't think so. I have to think about this one

My sense of what I am seeing with you and H, is that money and material items hold different values and meaning. I wonder if when you chose H that there were a number of his other qualities and values and ways of being that made you for one reason or another over look this particular attribute H has with money.

. Thank you for suggesting I reflect on this. I overlooked how he is with money because of other attributes like, his honesty, insightfulness, logic, loyalty,and down to earth nature.

I guess it is the question we all ask ourselves when in relationship with someone else, is this a deal breaker, is this one of my non-negiotables. You may find JulieH that when it was just you and H it was easier to accept this particular attribute, however with the creation of a family it has changed your acceptance or heightened the unacceptability of this attribute in a M or in your H.

. Very true. I grew up with philosphy that children come first. he feels like he does a lot for children but I have different expectations.

I myself struggle with men who are not generous with their money. I am but I have no money because I tend to give it away in my relationships. But I also struggle to be looked after financially by the men in my life. I have to always pay my share or more. I kind of know what this is about and in my next relationship something to look for in myself.

I hope you can feel better soon about this issue. I feel like this is movement though.

. Yes. I was in limbo for a while and this is movement. I agree and am gonna keep doing what I was doing (focus on me and kids and no pursual of husband) and just see what happens. This is sign that he is not afraid to look out for his best interests so I should not be either when we go to court. I think I am angry and vilifying because I am hurt knowing that what he said about reconciliation is most likely not genuine. my suspicions were correct. I am gonna keep anger to myself. See what happens in court and get some sleep. Thank you there is more I want to think about regarding your post I am just so tired.

[Vanilla]

Julie

I am going to explain my concept of abuse and provide you with a link to Zelda and my abuse thread. There are three types of abuse in my analysis

The first is reactive abuse, the kind of abuse which we do as a reaction to things that happen, or when we are in a fight. I had this abusive pattern, I call this my screaming banshee. It is behavioural, can be habit but can be resolved and managed. most of us when pushed will react thiis way.

The second is situational, abuse arises because of the situation we are in, change the situation and the abuse stops. A sexless marriage or frustrating financial position perhaps causes us to react in detrimental ways to achieve resolution.

The final is engrained in personality, the abuse was there all along. The abuse is about control not anger. It is how the abuser gets resource for themselves. Depending on the type of abuser they may use violence to get what they want. Abuse isnt only violence. It can be intimidation: as in my case or physical manipulation as in mustardseeds. Zelda had objects thrown at her. GreenGrass son was hit. One male poster was screamed at in the shower. All off this is systemic abuse and controlling.

The type of abuse to be very wary of is the last, those who exhibit can change although it is very unlikely and it takes many years. It requires a great deal of willingness and frankly until they have extensive therapy CBT, dBT or other intensive therapy, then NC is best advised with systematic abusers. Abusers of this type are very weak indeed in personality. They see their family as an extension of themselves and treat them as if they had no rights. This type of abuse is difficult to be involved in. Abuse targets (not victims) are chosen because their Characteristics fit the profile of low boundaries, generosity and naivety. This type of abuser uses financial abuse as a method of control.

Why control?

Well abusive behaviour is limited to family, these abuses are not necessarily extended to workmates, drinking buddies or POPs. ( Potential other partners).

In order to maintain control, abusive patterns in the last type (which I call systemic abuse), involve the target being told what the target wants to hear. It keeps the target engaged and giving. I call this the sweet cycle. It can be very subtle in the start of a new sweet cycle, crumbs even.

So I am going to call this for you, in other situations I have regretted not being more forthright in my posts. So please consider if your WH is using the last type of abuse pattern. If so it doesn't bode well.

There are some indicators about the control, particularly his use of money. As long as you have resource or are capable of taking resource you will be targeted by WH. It's quite dangerous position at the start off a sweet cycle. Especially if you are becoming aware, there can be manipulation to maintain resource. Anc is in a current sitch for this. So you need to be very careful, to document and record. Protect yourself at all interactions.

I particularly see the word "try" as an indicator. Try is a set up word to excuse failure. I will try to get there! I will try to be good etc. Meaning I am just saying this to appease you, and later " well I only said I would try. I did and it didn't work out, but I did try."

I think your WH is using money as a means of control. Why is the parking lot an important symbol to me? In many ways because if WH was seriously concerned about this, it would be a quiet important discussion to have when neither of you are distracted. Not a by the way in a public place.

There are two very important posts on your thread about this issue, the first is Sandis and the second is Jellyb. Your own post about WH long standing use of cash as a resource, garnering small sums and hoarding from family finances is a red flag to me. As I said the parking lot treatment another, designed to down dog. Unless treated this type of behaviour gets worse with age.

I agree with Zues, in almost all of us there can be abusive behaviour, although when we realise we rectify. For some systematic abuse is ingrained and part of personality, and they don't atone and resolve. They see it as necessary to their well being.

I am very careful to call the behaviour and not to label in this. If you decide their is. Systematic abuse by WH then think of yourself as a target not a victim. it is important for your healing that you think this way. I believe this, acceptance is key, once you know then you can not unknow. This isn't faux victimhood, targets have a hard time seeing themselves as targets. If you decide you have been a target, then you. Are not to blame for this.WH has done this for control, you can choose to be strong, acquire boundaries and protect yourself.

My view is very straightforward, abuse of whatever type. Should stop full stop. Completely. Even after all this time NC with my WH, any type of abuse whether intended or not triggers me into PTSD. It's easily observed, the worst came after I understood and set boundaries. The abuse moved to a level 6 abuse, physical intimidation. For my own sake an earlier intervention would have helped. It was the wonderful GreenGrass who called it for me and then I could no longer deny.

V

Abuse resource

Consider the following threads Zelda, Mustardseed, my own, Scherrman, Ancaire and Tlee.

[mutatio]

Julie, I have been thinking about my responses to questions on your thread. In retrospect I think I was heavy handed in my answers. I am sorry for dumping on your husband.

I thought about what drove me to respond the way I did and I found the answer. Part of it was my resentment from my frustration in dealing with my own situation. Part of was your husband's choices and my moral code. Part of it is my psyche, I know it is not right but I find it easier to beat up on a male then a female.

Again, I am sorry for injecting my baggage into the response I offered you. My emotional struggle is below the surface and if I am not vigilant it can leech into my actions.

With that said, I believe you are the only one who has your best interests at heart. Be well Julie, be strong