Yes, she's strong willed. She's never been a tender-hearted person, and that's part of her issue - she needs to have, share, and explore her feelings. Keeping them bottled up only works for so long, and then they explodes.
I'll be there for her, but yes, I will need to start calling the shots, and let her know I'm there if she needs me.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
No need to let her know. She knows. She needs to realize you may not always be, needs to start wondering if you really are going to be there for her. Which means you prob want to be there in the home for your kids, but be there very little for her until she comes to you and her actions back it up.
I reread some stuff I wrote and decided to follow up. Just follow the 180 to the letter. Anything I said that might contradict anything on the 180 is wrong. Follow the 180.
My addiction counselor mentioned that if she's not seeing the OM, and has SOME signs that she wants to work on the M, that me showing a little affection, lettign her know I care/love her would be a good idea. Deathly afraid of telling her that, as I want the 'definitive' answer of YES, I want to work on this M... but that might not come for weeks, or months.
After experiencing it, and then reading these forums for years, I have more doubts toward the WW that makes too quick changes. I mean, you don't stop loving one man today...and start loving another man tomorrow. There have been very few and far between stories where a WW says the A has ended and she immediately start showing signs that she is ready to put her energy into working on the MR. It takes her time to deal with her own issues.
I don't think you should "tell" her what your counselor told you. If your W is authentic in ending it with OM, it is more important that she agrees to a transparency plan. That is priority on the agenda. If she does not show a bad attitude toward you, and if she is receptive....then you can show non-sexual touches, emotional support, acts of service, and little "thinking of you tokens" (whatever her LL might be). I agree with you that she does not need to be smothered! She will need support......but please start out with this show of love deposits very slowly, and lightly. She's like the skittish squirrel now, (if she's serious about ending the A).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Met one-on-one with pastor/counselor. We did clear up a lot of what I was hearing as mix messages. We both heartily agree with you Sandi, this WW coming back to the nest will take MONTHS to get her to the point that she's truly sorry and able to see it from my side of the fence. Until then, I need to still be GAL, showing her that things will be different. She started working out this morning - a very positive sign. I haven't had her bite my head off for a couple days now.
Another prevailing thought from the counselor/pastor was when we are together, even my compliments are taken by my wife negatively, and responded to negatively. He figured out that I'm working on this, but that I'm most likely a more positive-spin person than my wife is. She can change, over time, and then mentioned if she had ever gone to counseling herself... HA! He was going down my list of things to talk to her about - NC, transparency in our lives (he mentioned this), MC (which he's still willing to do), and counseling for my wife. He knows as well as I do that I just can't tell her to go to counseling, but I think he might stress it when we're together.
His focus was to take steps to repair our relationship to where we can be friendly to each other, and then build trust. We'll see how Tuesday's session goes, as well as my 180's work on this weekend's activities.
Still working through DR book...
I agreed to do the shopping for Christmas for the family. She is still on board with meeting with counselor. I'll be having honest conversations about having access to her email and phone this weekend.
We're going to the Capitol and listen to some Christmas music - high school choirs and some actors in the rotunda. The dome here in Madison is as big as the one in DC. Family event that we've never done before. Sunday we go chop down our Christmas tree as a family as well. I will be an example of a husband that only a fool would leave. My cologne experiment has me down to Michael Kors and Dolce & Gabbana 'The One'. Probably going to buy both, what the heck.
I bought a bike on cyber Monday - will be biking with the kids in the spring. I didn't tell the wife - I'm sure it will get a reaction, but it's a present to myself for Christmas. I never get much, and have always said 'don't buy me anything'. That's a definite 180 for me.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Has she actually said that she is on board to save the M, or is she using these C sessions as an opportunity to bash you?
It seems like you and the pastor are trying to pull her toward working on the M, while she diggs her heels in and resists. Does she ever agree with what he has to say?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She still hasn't made it known that she wants to put in the time to save the marriage. She's willing to go week to week, but even when I mentioned that we had a great weekend, she felt the need to poo-poo the comment, and told me she's just focused on day-to-day.
The biggest frustration is her not committing to working on the marriage, and not being completely transparent. I still don't have access to her FB and email and texts, so I'm still in the dark. I waffle between being cold because I'm upset at not seeing her commit, to trying to be the best husband I can be, so that she sees the changes.
It really upsets her that I bought cologne, a bike, and new shoes, since I was, and probably still are the pennypincher in the family. I've lost 22 lbs. With the grave's disease, she's trying to work out, but it's tough, and she's sputtering instead of taking it easy and working into her workouts, so her self image is very low - she has a nice scar across her neck, so she sees it in the mirror every morning. She's annoyed that I'm in tune with my feelings.
Example of our struggles: The front doorknob is broke, and now comes off the door. It's a problem, obviously. We spent Sunday going to church, going out and cutting down a Christmas tree, and then when to a Christmas pagent done at the Capitol, as well as went out with friends and the kids to eat. It was a great day, and I completely forgot that football was being played that day (love football, fantasy football, typically sit on my butt and watch all the games every Sunday). So, once we finally got home, I had to help with son w/ homework, get my clothes downstairs to wash, and catch the end of the game. My wife went to bed, and I fell asleep around 10PM... so no time to fix the doorknob. She's back at me right away this morning 'when are you going to fix that doorknob? It isn't going to fix itself!' I started to walk away, and she continues to berate me.
I know the doorknob needs to be fixed soon. It bothers me, too, and I told her that. However, her telling me for the 4th time in 2 days isn't going to make the doorknob get fixed any faster. I also let her know that her comments hurt. She brushed off that anything she did was meant to hurt me, but I reminded her it's not how she feels, but how her comments make me feel, so please acknowledge that my feelings and hurt are legit.
I don't want the marriage to be always talking about feelings, but her comments remind me of her mother, and that's not a good thing. My wife continually has mentioned she doesn't want to turn into her mother, but many of her actions, her nagging, her worry and having to have a sense of control are JUST like her mom - she learned how to cope, and learning a new way to cope just isn't her 'thing' right now.
She seems to want to engage in conversation often - do I oblige, and try to show her I'm there, or do I ignore her until I get the confirmation that she wants to work at it?
Our pastor thinks working on the marriage by myself is the way to go right now, and the DR book, MWD says that one person working on the marriage can make a huge difference.
So, to sum up: - when should I see her actions as cake-eating, and not try to work with her, or should I just ignore and continue to work on the M by myself, with no commit from her?
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Our pastor thinks working on the marriage by myself is the way to go right now, and the DR book, MWD says that one person working on the marriage can make a huge difference.
That's true. My reason for asking if she is willing or not is b/c if she's not willing, then it seems to me you might as well be in the C sessions without her.
The fact she refuses to participate in a transparency plan is extremely telling.
Quote:
She's willing to go week to week, but even when I mentioned that we had a great weekend, she felt the need to poo-poo the comment, and told me she's just focused on day-to-day.
Day-to-day is not commitment. It's more like, "We'll just see how things go today". She is giving no hope and no promises by giving no commitment.
One reason she's so negative about everything you say is b/c she doesn't want you to get the idea she's coming around. I've been there myself. In fact, I think it causes a WW to treat her H worse, b/c she's trying to prove to him that she's not happy and it's not working.
Quote:
She seems to want to engage in conversation often - do I oblige, and try to show her I'm there, or do I ignore her until I get the confirmation that she wants to work at it?
Our pastor thinks working on the marriage by myself is the way to go right now, and the DR book, MWD says that one person working on the marriage can make a huge difference.
So, to sum up: - when should I see her actions as cake-eating, and not try to work with her, or should I just ignore and continue to work on the M by myself, with no commit from her?
Your problem is that you aren't sure about the status of your M. You aren't sure what the plan is. If you don't know the plan, how can you follow it?
When she's on a day-to-day non-committed arrangement, you will not be able to tell if she is serious or cake eating.
As it is, you are basically trying both ways......working with her, and withdrawing from her; acting as a family and M couple, and then at time you're not; working as though she's in it with both feet, and working as though she's a WW. When a LBH has a leg on each side of the fence, it just makes him look moody, angry, self-centered, etc., b/c he mostly goes by whatever mood she's in that day....instead of following a plan.
I think you need to decide which way you want to follow, and then build a plan around it. Of course, most everyone had rather work as though the W is wanting to save the M, too. Why? B/c it's much, much easier than going it alone and dealing with a WW.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You seem to always make the difficult easy to understand!
I've revisited the detachment thread. Not being cold and showing her I care, but still detaching is a challenge. So easy to just stop talking with her, and show her my displeasure.
Tough to 'fake it until you make it' and be there for her as a roommate and father to her kids, but realize there isn't anything there in the marriage - yet.
Another question - I'm not the kind of guy that would just head out for a night, but I think that's something I need to start doing to balance out my life, and detach. The worry is that since we have 3 kids at home, the W will react very negatively, saying that I am abandoning the kids to be selfish and do my own thing. She's already made mention that I'm very self-focused right now and that she's upset, and that I'm being very selfish and working on the relationship. I almost laughed out loud, but I did acknowledge that I'm working on myself right now.
I'm supposed to work on the marriage alone, and without any commitment from her, and she's just 'work things out' within herself when she feels like it... or thereabouts.
This weekend was 2 steps forward, 2 steps back. Time to work on REALLY detaching. I'll be back at the books again tonight.
M46, EXWW46 M15 T17 D20, S19, D13 M - Addiction since 1998 W EA/PA #1 2013/2014 W EA #2 June 2015... BD 1 Big D talk 9/15 BD 2 - EA/PA disc 10/30/15 Served D 1/22/16 Divorced 5/25/16 (yes, that fast!)
Hi Trumpet, I do not know your complete sit but a brief view of it sounds as though I am in a sit similar to you. Where I am wavering between DB approach or working on WR. You know your W best so I may be asking an ignorant question but did you take your W's behavior actions into consideration re: what approach to take?
I hope to follow your sit closely. Don't have any recommendations at this time but want to let you know that I am pulling for you!
