New or false hope?

[Zues126]

Gmum- I don't know that abuse was involved or that it was an abusive relationship.

I define abuse differently than most people though. If the relationship didn't leave one spouse concerned for their safety then I don't consider it abusive. I believe all marriages are 'emotionally abusive'. Shoot, I feel my wife was criminally negligent and cruel for not having sex for years at a time. I guess it's just a matter of where you draw the line.

Either way, we all agree to protect yourself first. If protecting yourself and your heart deters him from wanting R then he wasn't genuine.

[Gmum]

Ah ok, guess I jumped to conclusions.

Thanks for clarifying.

[2ltl2lt]

Years bro?

[mutatio]

Julie, you asked for opinions and I have one for you, this is a Trojan Horse. I can't quantify it but my gut is screaming don't take the bait. This is all about his whats and desires. This effort is not primarily for you, it is for him. His words: "he has been lonely and miserable and depressed". If it was me and I behaved like him, I would be kissing your caboose and handing you the checkbook. You said " A real action would have been if he gave me back money from past few months which were not retroactive. I said that to him and he said no. So that kind of shows no?" Really, I think this speaks volumes about his motivation. I'm not buying what he's selling, he's many days late and more then a few dollars short.

I know this is hard because of the emotions involved. I believe in love and happy endings and want the best for you. I strongly recommend you go slow with him and keep the legal process moving forward. Let him prove himself, if it's an act he will not be able to sustain it. Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

[Painter]

I'm not sure what you should do, because I don't know your H.

If you agree on CS, do you have to go to court over it? Why not just agree on guidelines and have the judge sign off? That would be a mutual olive branch and a first stepping stone down a cooperative path, whether you go back to being a couple or just remain coparents.

If it had been me, I would at this point agree to MC. I think I understand what he's saying about dating without talking R. He wants to turn a new leaf. However, that may not be possible for you without having some questions answered. In some ways, this reminds me of H (and anyone else who cheated), who just wants to move one and forget about the A.

But getting your questions answered isn't going to immediately make you want to risk your emotions. A slow process with 'dates' may tell you over time what you want.

I don't see abuse in your situation, but your H seems selfish. Everyone has flaws, it's just about what you can live with.

[JellyB]

Hi JulieH,

I just came by to check and see you were doing.

My friend your strategy doesn't change because of H's exclamation.

Let time tell if he is sincere, genuine and committed to his words. Actions will tell you all you need to know.

Just as you are learning to make change and grow so is H. Is this him changing and growing, maybe. Is he earnest and honest, or even aware. Who knows at this point.

I am not surprised to hear this exclamation and apparent move towards R. If money is a place of value, meaning and motivation for him, then potentially it was always going to be the place where he felt the most vulnerable and needed to take action. Whether his intentions are honorable or not, is not for you to figure out right now.

So H has changed the playing field slightly to the right. So what.

So you adapt what you feel is appropriate, but you maintain your overall strategy. You and children are protected. You look after yourself and your emotional well being. You keep DBing. And H gets to show you through his actions just exactly what he is prepared to do, to show you that investing in a new M with him is what you want.

Right now my friend, the fear, panic and uncertainty has kicked in, in response to H, unexpected exclamations. This is pure survival response from your brain (Fight, Flight or Freeze). Up till now your brain and body has been engaged in what it perceived as warfare, you had arsenal set up to protect yourself from the current stress of H walking away and also for the outcome of D. Your brain and feelings are realigning with this new information. Perceived attack - R an option. Brain and feelings in overload. It's a false attack JulieH. Emotions just need to come back down to earth and reason needs to reign once again.

Once you have some time to filter the information and emotion, you will realise that you have gotten exactly what you asked for, an opportunity to figure out - what is it that I want for my life and my children. This is the ultimate question for a DBer. What we all want in the end is the opportunity to look in the mirror and say "F**k I am awesome, what a life I have".

That life may well include H or it may not.

We are all here for you JulieH.

Thank you for care and support of me in recent posts.

Much Love

JellyB XXX

[JulieH]

Thank you everyone! I will read through more thoroughly tonight. Just needed to post because I am hurt. Just got in mail that he took me off car insurance. I get it. But it just goes to show what a fool I have been...

I agonized for months about asking for child support. He lived off my family and saved tons of money for over a year (very little went to me and kids) and he has no problem with taking me off before court date. He told me he would do this but it was fast. I dont believe he has real intentions of reconciliation or he would not do this. and do I want someone that is this greedy and selfish?...he earns 3 figures and has no expenses. I earn a lot less.

I am so angry and want so bad to confront. How do I keep myself from saying the things I want to? Please help me from losing it. I should just keep quiet right?;

There has to be better men out there right? This is pretty selfish and cheap right? Am I wrong in anyway? How can I rationalize this so that he is not the pathetic, selfish, greedy man that I am seeing. Husbands would you do this?

I should have known. I remember best friend warned me. When we were first dating the three of us went out to bar to meet up with friends. She did not have a boyfriend at the time. He brought back drinks for me and him but not for her. She called him on it and bought her own drink. I had forgotten about it until recently she reminded me. At time he felt like he shouldn't have to provide others with drinks, just because they are women etc. But it would have been nice. I do stuff like that for people and never really think about it. But then he wastes money on tons of take out and luxury car.

Perhaps this is the sign I need to just move on. Why entertain anything else. Did he think this of me when I failed for child support. I don't think it's necessarily revenge (I could understand the passion involved e with that) I thinks it's just him looking out for himself financially. Perhaps I'm being just as greedy and financially selfish so why complain when he does it too?

[JellyB]

JulieH,

I say feel all of what you are feeling, spew it out here. Feel the betrayal and the sense of his selfishness. And when the emotions have settled you can start to evaluate the bigger picture.

Lady V always says it's never just about money. There is likely something deeper here. It may well be worth digging around in what money means to you. Often if we look back in our FOO (Family Of Origin) we will discover some hidden gems. Maybe H FOO will explain some things

My sense of what I am seeing with you and H, is that money and material items hold different values and meaning. I wonder if when you chose H that there were a number of his other qualities and values and ways of being that made you for one reason or another over look this particular attribute H has with money.

I guess it is the question we all ask ourselves when in relationship with someone else, is this a deal breaker, is this one of my non-negiotables. You may find JulieH that when it was just you and H it was easier to accept this particular attribute, however with the creation of a family it has changed your acceptance or heightened the unacceptability of this attribute in a M or in your H.

I myself struggle with men who are not generous with their money. I am but I have no money because I tend to give it away in my relationships. But I also struggle to be looked after financially by the men in my life. I have to always pay my share or more. I kind of know what this is about and in my next relationship something to look for in myself.

I hope you can feel better soon about this issue. I feel like this is movement though.

Look after yourself JulieH

Much Love

JellyBXXX

[mutatio]

There has to be better men out there right? This is pretty selfish and cheap right? Am I wrong in anyway? How can I rationalize this so that he is not the pathetic, selfish, greedy man that I am seeing. Husbands would you do this?

This is how I read it. If he is behaving this way, he is cheap, selfish and cares more about his money then he does about you. If his primary focus was you, he would move heaven and earth to be by your side. It seems money is his mistress.

He has a luxury car and wife and kids get empty promises. This is not what a man who loves his wife does. This is not what a man who does not love with wife and wants out does. A real man does the right thing even if it hurts. He is not out for you, he is out for himself.

I'm sorry if I upset you. I am honest to a fault and this is how I read it. This is a real man's opinion.

[JulieH]

Mutatio : thank you. I am questioning myself a lot. I go over in my mind a lot of his actions that seem so selfish and question if it's as bad as I think it is and as bad as my family and friends see it. I want to be fair, but I would say the same thing your saying if it was a close friend. I think I am going to just try to go about my life as I was and not take what he said seriously. He really needs to prove himself. (his luxury car was bought some years ago before kids against my wishes. He also borrowed money from me to pay for it. I complained and it was a source of fighting but I also enabled it )

Painter, GMum,sandi : I don't feel like my husband is abusive. In fact, I think he feels like i have been abusive. Admittedly I am incredibly good at making passive aggressive comments that really hit to the bone. (They often just pop out but I am getting better at controlling this part of me). In my opinion I feel like I react to behaviors of his that I just find incredibly selfish. It is hard for me to move past a lot of these behaviors and they lead to me complaining and resenting. He often views it as me controlling and being critical. The behaviors are beyond selfish though... He needs to sleep late all the time which was source of great friction. He wouldn't watch kids for me and let me sleep when I was sick with pneumonia. Hell, He woke me up early to watch kids 2 days post surgery for cancer (type that could have been bad but ended up being caught early) when I was pregnant last year. His argument was that they used local anesthesia (they only used this instead of general because I was pregnant and no obstetrician at SK). i still think of how stressed I was during that whole incident and question why I want him back. To be honest i don't know if I do. I tell myself we all do selfish things and say cruel things. But I was pregnant with his child! Ended up with really awful and prolonged miscarriage. All the hospital bills from that year he insisted on splitting and I am still getting bills. I actually think I paid majority of them. i feel like his actions are crueler then my words. I am writing this and I realize if he ever reads this he will know it is me and I don't care anymore. I am not sure if I am posting this because I have to remind myself that this is not acceptable behavior from a spouse. I feel like I am overlooking extreme selfishness because he did not cheat. I am trying to understand how someone can be that selfish.

I am trying to understand why my words made him so angry at me that he left. The things I said had truth to them regarding his negligence as a father. Why was I never the person to leave? Why did I fight with him instead of just ending things? How am I the bad guy in all this?