Thanks max, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I guess it's a universal scenario that occurs with young kids. He does not understand and does not want to understand how difficult it was for me after kids were born. I do wish I had given more to him but I can't change things. I apologized and wanted to work on things, but he felt we couldn't. I still have yet to give him a letter, but I can't when I am still this angry. It needs to be authentic.
Husband was pretty much an only child and I know his mom did everything including work full time. Father was known as main provider (mom made a big deal of this to hide what was really going on) and now my husband is left in dark about his families real dynamics modeling how he believes we should be on something pretty dysfunctional. (I think a lot of our problems compounded after his father died and he was getting pulled in tons of directions from mom and work and me with new babies). I do empathize but can't do much. And if there was in fact an affair, i am not spiritually mature enough of a person to forgive that.
I had a rough couple of months, and It's frusturating but I think in long run i will survive this better then he will. Deep down, he is actually more sentimental then me. He is about to lose everything. he has some problems including Weird OCD issues and has been drinking a lot and gaining weight. I can't see him having an easy time with woman and relationships. In past he would say things like "I'm not having affair, woman are the last thing I can handle". One of my sons does not want to be around him and that is probably hurtful as well. I think he is about to hit rock bottom once we go to court because now it won't be about him having freedom and independence from a "nagging" wife. He will have consequences. He is also realizing that this is not going to be the happy and laughing divorced families all coming together for the holidays and doing things together for the good of the children. I don't put on pretenses.
Or maybe it will only hurt him a little. He always talked about how independent he was, and that he didn't need anything from anyone and preferred his solitude.
Last edited by JulieH; 11/26/1504:44 PM.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Same here. In the recent past she has started coloring her hair, started running (which she always hated), started spending more time with girlfriends who have had troubled marriages and who cheated, been obsessed with weight loss and supplements (even though she has never been overweight and has always been beautiful in my eyes, always my first choice...which of course doesn't matter cause it's me ).
Her choices are odd, she's very disorganized about life in general and this seems to have proceeded in a similar way. Very little if any communication about the process at all...she's the one who initiated it and wants out, yet I've had to get in touch a few times to ask about status of papers, etc.
I was willing to forgive the affair if she was willing to work on the marriage. I can tell you that I don't consider myself spiritually mature, but I just think it's the right thing to do if she were willing to do the work herself. Obviously, she wasn't.
My kids also don't want to be around her much. One of them has much more animosity toward her. I honestly don't think she ever wanted to be a wife and mother at all. She seems to like the idea of her doing/being most things more than the thing itself. Has never stuck to very much for a long time in her life. Runs around like a headless chicken all day and yet always seems bored and restless...then when there was nothing else to do, she would sit and drink til she passed out. All of that was my fault, of course.
I can't remember ever getting a sincere apology from my wife. Just damage control whenever she got caught or did something stupid in front of me. As for pretense...she is a master and I (aside from just being polite in social situations) refuse to put on an act.
I didn't mean to hijack your thread...just saying that you're not the only one out there, and neither is your spouse!
I found from experience and others that only sons are strong and confident when they have an emotional back up plan. IE an OW.
Most cannot take being alone and least of all if loneliness is due to them. The rejection from the son will hit hard .... in due time.
In a way we are also like WW. Especially only child. We need to feel the loss.
When I was focused with OW I never saw changes my W made. I never paid attention to her FB profile pics with tears or WA profile messages with sad quotes or quotes of encouragement. I never even paid attention when she started wearing short dresses and heels.
It was only after I decided to work on my M that everything clicked. I realized what she was going through, the chances I had been given, even the small changes.
Your H needs to get his head out of where the sun doesnt shine to realize what you are saying. Unfortunately it will take time.
Tl2. Hijack away. It's helpful to all of us, especially in my case, to hear about the husband's point of view. I guess they have to be very remourseful or it simply can't work. And even then.
Maximus, thank you for your perspective. To me the worst part has always been suspecting but not knowing for sure if there is affair. No real way for Intel at this point. Of course he has sworn there was no one but I know they will never admit it. The signs are there and everything would make sense. I also frequently hear that men do not leave their wives unless there is another woman.
How long were you involved in affair for? Did she suspect? How long did it take you to regret it ? What made you eventually want to work on marriage? Was there anything your wife could have done that would have woken you up sooner (no contact? File for divorce? ). Do you mean that while you were having affair she was making changes to improve marriage but it was too late for you at the time?
This past year I had been making changes and he just was checked out (supposedly he was stressed with work). I believed that. But I know what it sounds like when you read it. He had increased his time at gym and was just not around much.
When I read and think about how he treated me and think that there was other woman I am sickened and just want to move on and eventually find someone else.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
I was holding my W's phone where I had just found a series of text messages where she was telling the guy about how much she wanted to run off together, and it was clearly about sex, and she looked me in the eye and told me that's not what it meant, that I misunderstood.
First of all... It is generally true ... men do not separate first in order to go windows shopping. They like to jump from one warm bed into another.
- I was involved for quite some time. - Yes she did and with whom - I never regretted PA. Still dont. I consider it a moment in my life where since a long time I was loved by someone who was interested in me and the sex was off the charts. For a H on a sex diet for so long it was like being given a blank cheque in willy wonkas factory. I also learned a lot and became a stronger person. The way I saw it .. if my w does not want any emotional or physical contact with me whats wrong with sharing what I have to give with someone else so long as W gets the paycheck she wants. - I decided to work on my M when I saw I could lose my W. Also I saw the R with OW was going nowhere and i was tired of the double life. i wanted a single healthy one. So we decided to call it a day as OW felt the same and I focused on piecing what was left of my M and see what it would become. It was make or break. TBH even if I had not seen message from OM we still would have broken up OW and me. - My w woke me up with the frienship with this guy. But I still had resentment for her. jealous that door outwards she was happy and door inwards miserable.
- She never ade changes, just became controlling and aggressive so I distanced myself and when one day she said to give it a go she said it under pressure. I said no. I will always regret that day decision. had I known DB then I would have said yes and known what to do. Hindsight is a b1tch.
I was messed up and found a nice place to be myself in a sort of twisted way. Looking back yes it was wrong and i imagine it has a sort of fairytale side to it because I never got caught.
She did, I played the role of the LBS when in fact I was a WLBS for sometime but really it was just anger that what I had so desparately wanted from her for a long time, before my PA, she gave in part to someone else.
Anyway, being in a PA also helped me understand her thinking and even more so after DB so I knew what she was going through. The OW also made me a stronger person and I have become more calmer and less talk and more action.
As for a PA due to work stress, thats BS. I have a lot of stress at work so I scr3w a neighbour or colleague because it helps?. If things were OK I would rather tap my w than get involved in a PA. if things are not Ok at home then yes, I understand a PA but never down to work stress.
Maximus, he never said he had affair because his work was stressful. he always denied affair and continues to deny. Once swore on me and kids. (I know so juvenile) He said he never had time for me due to work. He said he would have no time for affair or anything due to work. I believed him at time and just thought bis job was awful, but I wouldn't be too surprised if other woman. Our marriage was bad and we had limited chance for intimacy due to living arrangement.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Julie, I read Maximus's post and feel compelled to comment. I respect his honesty and am not here to condemn another person. That said, I don't want you to think that every man cheats or considers it ok.
My M was horrible. After the kids STBX was 100% mom, 0% wife. I focused on work and pool to keep my mind off the hole in my heart at home. We went years at a time without sex and up to six months at a time without talking. I felt more used than I could possibly explain. I told my best friend it was like I was single except I couldn't date anyone and had to give 100% of my income in alimony.
During that time I was a new manager. I was 31. I had a number of women working for me between the ages of 24-28. They would go out after work for happy hour, and do fun adventurous things on the weekend. I started to feel extremely left out. Meanwhile I'd go home and literally be shunned by a woman that treated me like once she had my sperm and money I was worthless.
Finally it happened. I started getting a bit of a crush on one of these women. I started enjoying her company too much, trying to impress her, finding ways to spend more time with her. I knew it was stupid, but I have always avoided women so being in a job where I had to have extended contact was challenging for me. I remember talking to one of my friends after work, crying because I was so upset this is how I was feeling. Note- I never did ANYTHING inappropriate. No flirting, no physical contact. It was just in my MIND. But I was so frustrated that I was feeling this way. And yes, I in part blamed my W, because I was thinking "I am trying, trying, trying to stay committed to this M, and instead of recognizing how hard it is for a man and supporting me through my temptations, you are literally giving me every reason to justify going outside of the M".
But- I knew that was all BS. I KNEW my M was more important. I knew that this was a garbage distraction. I was able to look ahead and run it out, if I broke up my family for some other woman in 5 years I'd have the same challenges with this other person, on top of a broken home.
This lasted 2-3 months, until one day I told this other woman that I couldn't work with her any more, and I told her why. I also told my boss. I also told my W. I offered my resignation if my boss couldn't find another team to have me lead. Bottom line I freaked out and said my M was first, and I couldn't allow anything to jeopardize that. Everyone was surprised since there had been no outward sign of anything. But in the end it worked out, I was able to continue working there. And once I made this confession any fantasy died and the emotional obsession was dead.
STBX of course was hurt and upset and embarrassed, and instead of being a wake up call to the state of our M and a sign that I was committed to working on it, she instead moved farther away. This is the way our M was the last 3 years. It was bad. Bad Julie.
It's too bad. I was actually proud of how I handled the situation all in all. Turns out she didn't do as well when it was her turn so to speak. That's part of the reason I felt so betrayed, if I knew we were going to play the give up and screw around game I wouldn't have tortured myself in that partnership for so long.
But I can sleep at night knowing who I am, what I did, and there is no sex in the world that is better than being able to look in the mirror.
I've shared this before, just not sure if it's been since you were on the board. Point is that not all men cheat and some DO think it's a big deal. As much as I have physical desires I've only ever wanted to have one woman in my life, and the fact it hasn't played out that way has been 100% on them.
Back to your regular scheduled program now.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
- I never said every man cheats - If you look at statistics, there is a high number of cheaters, around 50 - 60%. - I do not consider it OK at all. - Once that boundary is crossed it is a door that is never closed. - Just like an addict, rehab is forever. - Falling is easier the next time around. - The M never fully recovers. Ever. - Most people can deal with marital problems face to face because it implies interaction between both. - Affairs happen beyond the LBS reach until caught. Until then it is the uncertainty that eats away and the worst thing is you cant address it if you have no proof. - After that and presuming things work out, both need to put in a lot of work but the LBS has the worst part which is blind faith. As you know trust is something that is hard to obtain but easy to lose. - Another sad part about EAPA is that if you dont get caught you are more likely to fall. Get better at covering your tracks and do not see the damage you are causing. - Once you do get caught everything is different, reality bites and you see the devastation but are oblivious, lost and depending on your situation and character come to terms with it in different ways.
Going back to your comments and please understand this is my opinion with all respect and without full knowledge of your situation:
- Going years (so not once) at a time without sex and 6 months without talking. In what way is that considered a marriage? Did you address the issue? If so what happened? If not why not?
- How is developing a crush, enjoying a workers company too much, trying to impress her, finding ways to spend time with her not flirting? If you analyze this, is this not considered an emotional affair? Maybe your co-worker did not get the memo but the fact YOU were doing it being married...How do you consider this behaviour appropriate? If your wife had done it would you have been Ok with that?
- In your paragraph you say you blame your W because you were trying to stay committed and instead of recognizing ... supporting me through my temptations....giving me every reason to justify... did you ever stop to think why she did not? did you ever stop to think she feltt he same? How did you expect her to recognize how hard it is and why should she if you never told her? How did you expect your W to support you during your temptation? What makes you think she should? Because you dont exist for her you at some point thought it was justifiable to have an EAPA. Not walk out and then find someone.
- After you realized it was BS, what did you do to change the situation and improve your M? Why only indicate as a deterrent that you would be in the same situation 5 years from now + a broken home. why would you believe that? if you were guaranteed that would not happen, would you have had an EAPA?
- Would you consider your actions were more to get a reaction from your W as a last call than she could lose you? How does one consider that telling a S of a crush at work, that it is now gone public and on top of that that you resigned to be a wake up call to make the s come running to your arms or open up? Why choose this method and once again why not consider other options that were available? Why continue for another 3 years in a dead R? If you tried something before and it did not work what made you think it would now? If you never tried, what made you think more of the same would work?
- After your confession, what did you do to remedy it?
- Maybe I am wrong but I think your co-worker was unaware of your feelings for her? If so how did she react? If not did she connect with you?
- Had you known your W would not be so ... noble .. would you have gone to the next level? During which time did she have the EAPA and for how long?
- I am happy that you can sleep at night, so can I. I also know who I was and who I am and that I need to work on myself to continue changing. Do you look back and see how you contributed and what you could have done differently or did you rest the blame on her?
- More importantly I have also got to know who my W is and what I must do unconditionally to get her back which is why I am here. I think we are piecing and only time will tell how this jigsaw ends up.
- The cliched look in the mirror sounds nice. The problem is many can look in the mirror for different reasons. when I do i see a messed up guy given a second chance and scared everyday of blowing it. I see a guy that has fallen, picked himself up and working on not falling again. I see a guy that has endured as much as W during the M and was the weak one. When it was my time to step up i didnt.
Most of all however I see a man with his arms around a blurred female sihouette that each day that goes by gets clearer and clearer and hopes that one day it will be just as clear as him and that THAT day the sex and love will beat looking in the mirror ever again alone and uncertain.
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