Unlurking to share my story

[SciDad]

Hey Spliff,

Thanks for the encouragement! I woulda posted them earlier, but I was posting between experiments on Friday and had an incredibly busy weekend without much time to play on the computer....

Looks like our kids are about the same age - I have a S10 and S6. Nice thing is play also doubles as exercise..

[SciDad]

Annab,

I'm a science nerd so I'm all about the description of neurotransmitters and addiction as it relates to affairs....

[SciDad]

Update about the weekend since I wasn't able to post

Main thing is that I celebrated my birthday by going out a date with my wife. Nothing big, just dinner and a play. But it's a start.

My biggest problem is that didn't realize I had expectations going into this - our last date night (last month) didn't have anything attached. And yet I set myself up for disappointment, most likely because it was also my birthday....

Backstory: Last few weeks I've started noticing all the signs I hate. Wife texting/playing on phone a lot, then never leaving it out of her sight. Hell, she even takes it to the shower with her. Then I noticed she was dressing in more form-fitting clothes. And that she was wearing outfits OM gave her. Then she went on a ladies night out with someone from work and didn't get back until the boys bedtime. I think you can see where my mind was going with all this. The last time I caught her spending time with OM was the day before our Anniversary.

So, I'm obviously in a bad mental state when she volunteers to take our S10 to karate practice while I clean the house before the baby sitter gets there. No problem, but then I remember that OM goes to the same gym where karate is... Then I realized that neither of our sons had wished me a happy birthday when I woke up (I always make sure they do that for her). Turns out they didn't know. So now I'm getting a little more upset, until W comes home and I notice a birthday card in her purse. Great, I think - she got me a card, but didn't have time until now. That must have been why she wanted to drop off S10. Problem is I NEVER GOT THE card. Was it for someone else? What did I miss?

OK, so I try to get past it and we go have a lovely dinner (it really was great) and we laughed and talked and enjoyed ourselves for a couple hours before we needed to leave. Saw the play, held hands a little. Everything seemed great. But I couldn't stop feeling like I was missing something from my birthday.

I realized what it was when we got home - I hadn't gotten a chance to celebrate with my kids. No cake, no singing. And it bugged me more than I realized because as I thanked her for such a lovely evening I screwed up and mentioned it. She fought what I believe to be legitimate tears as I tried in vain to fix the situation. I think she genuinely tried to give me a nice night out and a nice birthday, but didn't think I wanted to do something with the kids. I didn't say it, but I don't care that she spent a lot of money on the dinner/play. I still wanted to enjoy it with my family.

She eventually accepted my apology and things seemed to be light this morning, but I can't help thinking I messed up big time and took a big step back. Next time I will STFU and focus on the effort she made - it can't be easy - and not think about any OM lurking in the shadows

Two steps forward, one step back? Time will tell...

[SciDad]

Very true, otw! But the good news about that is, the high won't last forever with the A partner either.

True! And lord knows that people in affairs aren't known for their patience...

[SciDad]

I know dealing with A is unbelievably emotional. There is no excuse for it, none. But there are many contributing factors for it. When you are able to (hopefully soon) focus on the contributing factors and drop the thoughts of the A. All of them. You can do it if you try very hard.

You will be better for it. Not your M, not your S, you will be better for it.

I absolutely acknowledge there were contributing factors, which is why I can even think about going forward with the marriage. And looking back I see the signs of my wife's unhappiness that I missed. We have tried addressing these factors, but it feels as if my wife is doing it half-heartedly. Like she wants to see where it goes, but doesn't want to give up on option B - the OM. And it doesn't help that she doesn't believe my changes are here to last.

Honestly, I just want her to drop the walls she's built (her words) enough to give us a real chance. It hasn't happened yet and I have no idea what to do other than to show consistent actions.... Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated

[Mona52]

I will be honest with you, what you fear the most might happen. She may choose OM for a while. I don't say that to make you give up, but to make you see that even if what you fear the most happens, there is still hope. There is hope as long as you want hope and not a moment longer.

For now, you have to not focus on the A. You will push her away. Focus on yourself to make her crazy to choose anyone else.

[SciDad]

Sandi2,

I apologize for the agonizingly slow reply, but I wanted to carefully consider your comments before I posted. Which is also why it's so ungodly long....

It grew considerably more complicated when she involved a third person in the M.

A further complication is that the OM was also a good friend of mine and spent lots of time with our kids. Seems like my W was using him as a Plan B remarriage (although I'm pretty sure he wants nothing to do with raising another family). He is now dead to me and I will not allow him into our house. He has no more contact with my kids.

The burden of proof is on her.  She is the one who should earn your trust, and until then, you need to be very cautious.  One of our vets use to say, "trust but verify".  He believed in gathering intell.  If you do, never tell her how you learn the truth that comes to light.  Not even after you reconcile.  

She was extremely transparent right after I revealed I knew something was up, although I never told her what I knew or how I knew it. I believe my phrasing for the confrontation was "I'm going to ask you some questions, some of which I already know the answers to. Now is your chance to tell the truth." I never showed her my evidence or how I got it. But she's smart enough to figure out one of my sources... For awhile she made a point of leaving her phone in front of me and walking away for hours. I didn't check because I didn't feel the need to and I would obsess over any little thing I found.

About a month later, my spidey sense went off again and she started acting suspiciously, so I checked her phone and she said something very inappropriate to OM. I confronted her again, asking how she was trying to work on our marriage while sending messages like that to OM. Maybe not my best move to show my cards, but the text I saw said how much she wanted to have sex with him (implying they hadn't yet) and that she was looking forward to the next day (she had secretly arranged to take the day off of work). She ended up going to work and I ended up losing a lot of faith I had in her honesty. She tried being upset that I had invaded her privacy, but I said that it would only be an invasion if she hadn't done anything wrong. By sending that text, she was the one at fault not her. That stopped the deflection and got us refocused on the real topic at hand

Has she shown remorse?  Has she earnestly apologized and asked for your forgiveness.....I mean humbly sought your forgiveness?  Or, was she more like, "I just want to pick up where we left off and put all this behind us".  Her attitude should tell you with that part. 

She has more remorse that she got caught and felt (maybe still feels - I'm not sure) that she did nothing wrong since she never had sex with him. But there are indications that there was plenty going on that was inappropriate (kissing/hugs/sexting). I'm not sure how to change this dynamic without it blowing up in my face. For now I'm focusing on my feelings and goals.

I really believe in a strong transparency plan.  If she is serious about working to same the M, then she will not protest about transparency.  It is as much, if not more, to help her as it is to get the trust back on track.  She should not expect you to simply trust her after she's betrayed you.  If she says, "Well, you'll just have to trust me", and she does nothing to help you trust her again........Let that be a red flag.  Like I said, her attitude will tell you more than her words. 

I agree, but am not sure how to approach this. The plan I'm working on is to tell her I'm feeling nervous again and am having trust issues (without trying to accuse her of anything), and ask for reassurance. At that point she will have the opportunity to alleviate my fears or not. But I think it's the only way I'll be able to trust her again, as much as I hate to admit it. I'll present a plan based on your guidelines. Honestly, I hope to not need to use it, but there a few good topics of conversations that can be had based on mundane findings (why are you still FB friends? Why didn't you uninstall that chat app?)

Is she still working with the OM?  If so, she needs to change jobs.  It is simply too risky, and I don't know of a case where the WW continued to work with her AP and reconcile fully with her H.  It is too difficult for her to do. 

She says she wants to switch jobs, but it's not clear to me if it's because she's distancing herself from OM or simply hates her job (she's not in the best work sitch right now). Unfortunately things have been moving very slowly on the job hunting front and the holidays don't help. One plan for this long weekend is to give her the time she says she needs to work on writing a resume/cover letter/etc. How far she gets and how invested she gets will show me how serious she is about getting another job.

I find it hard to accept that a woman suddenly ends a passionate affair, and with hardly the effort of batting her eyelashes, she's the doting wife again. A lot of women can play the role........so you have to decide if she's authentic in what you see in her.

I can tell she's struggling somewhat, but I'm not sure if it's the stain of continuing the affair or withdrawl. I tended not to think the latter because they have mutual friends and used to go out to lunch once a week. I don't know if they still are, and I've asked if we could have lunch once a week. She said yes, but hasn't really made any encouraging moves. I think I'll ask for lunch once next week.

Is the MC a solution-based counselor?  If not, you are wasting money and time.

Surprisingly, yes. It was not intentional on my part (although it should have been), but everything in our sessions has been solution-based. It's almost like he's applying DB/DR directly....

the reason I said they aren't the same, is b/c some WW's will agree to go to MC, or even say they will "try" to work on the MR......only to tell everyone later that she tried everything and it just didn't work.

This is my fear. She said she wants to work on the M to see if she can find feelings for me again. Red flag for me. especially since she told me that was stringing along the OM as a plan B because she "doesn't want to be a single mom."

Have you thought about telling her she needs to be tested for STD?

Ugghh.... I'm not sure I'm strong enough for that yet. Even if she's not lying about not having penetrating sex with the OM, there is still plenty of acts that can get you into trouble (Sorry - my medical side came out). The problem is that I know that would be a huge issue for her... For now I think I'll need to put it on a back burner while we work on everything else. My thought is that I could add that to the trust conversation, mainly because I see almost no scenario where we'll do anything that could get me into trouble. Hell, we don't even open our mouths when kissing yet....

On another note, I read one of your replies on another poster's thread. I was impressed, and thought it was great advice......especially for a newbie.

Thank you - that made my day! Even a broken clock is right twice a day....

[SciDad]

Update:

Last night was a good night. Picked up the kids - both had GREAT days at school and were excited to tell me all about it on the car ride home. S6 won a "character award"

Wife wasn't holding my comments against me and we interacted like normal, although I did see her face change to sadness as she glanced through some birthday cards I had gotten. Not sure what that was about.... I made dinner while she talked to her Mom on the phone (they talk every day), although this time she went into our bedroom while they talked. Lately she has made a point of staying in the room with me so I can listen in to what she is saying (she's more open with her mom than with me).

I went upstairs to change out of my work clothes and tell her that dinner was ready I accidentally walked in as she was getting dressed. Good thing is that now I'm more awkward when that happens than she is (no more diving behind the bed for her, but I still avert my eyes and apologize). Without prompting she let me know she left the room so she could tell her mom what the kids wanted for xmas. Catalogs were on the bed so I suppose it was true, but it's interesting that she felt the need to tell me. Maybe she's sensing my concern? Meh, not that it matters....

Oh, and when I was holding my youngest son he grabbed my W and forced us all to hug (try and tell me he doesn't know what's up...). And my wife kissed me on the lips again. At some point I reminded my wife that she hadn't finished the homework assignment I'd given her - to tell me how I could help her get a new job. Her reply (somewhat exasperatedly) was that all she needed was time. I told her that could happen.

Weird, but generally a good evening. Now that the emotional roller coaster has made it up the hill I'm now waiting for the bottom to drop out. We'll see what tomorrow brings, lol

[gonegrl]

SciDad, I am curious about your marriage counselor and what he said about the EA. Because I really researched before choosing a counselor and found the only one with great reviews in our area (most get horrible reviews) and he has been acting as though the EA is no big deal and I should just trust my H. I am always curious as to what other counselors say about the EA.

[SciDad]

Pho- before I get too far I apologize for any autocorrect fails-I type better than I Swype...

Our mc certainly didn't sign off on the ea, but focused more on why it happened and what both of our needs were for the marriage. The mc also made the point to my wife that if she bailed on marriage now she would be very likely to do it again. And again. And she'd never really be happy if that was the path she chose. The mc also made a point of saying how similar our needs were. We are now working on plans to get our respective needs.

I should also say that my wife swore that the ea was over. I'm just not as trusting as the mc. Blame was not assigned per se, and I intentionally choose not to dwell on the ea until I felt we had a better foundation to start with. We were at a precipice, and I made the choice that made the most sense to me.