I'm also horrible at housework...would much rather work,and lose patience with my sensory seeking son. We are human!
Another thing in common, I think husband was too angry for therapy as well. I would leave crying and he felt great at getting to complain about me and our relationship.
If you don't mind sharing, were there things you did before BD that you wished you did differently? Do you feel any guilt about how you were with husband in past? I am asking you this because am coming to some realizations about myself.... I am putting up with a lot now to atone for some of my bad behaviors earlier on. (Will post about later)
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Hi Spiff, thank you. Actually at times our MC does ask me to validate, now that I am thinking about it, but then usually H launches into spew and some of the things he says are just kind of "out there" and H gets so worked up, that's when the MC just nods and lets H wear himself out. He went off about how he doesn't even know if the dog gets fed? And that I use crazy hand gestures? Stuff like that. And if the MC asks H to validate me, he cannot do it, gets it completely wrong, and then the counselor role plays H validating me.
I think my H has been too angry to really participate honestly in counseling, although he seems to have calmed down quite a bit lately so maybe that can change.
My W doesn't go to that extent. Her attacks are more personal in nature in some cases, but most it is just little petty stuff. In her latest one, she said that I was incapable of making a decision. I was like WTF? Where did that come from? I always tried to get her opinion on things as any good couple does.
I can imagine the hell to come in our next session. If you have checked into mine today, you will see what I am talking about. She told me last night that she feels me and the counselor don't hear her. Now keep in mind that our counselor is pro-marriage and tries to get us to work out. It almost seems as if she wants our counselor to validate her feelings on leaving.
If you have read any of my W's history that I told about, you may get an insight. I love this woman to death. There is no other for me. I didn't know of her personal issues (well, the depth of them) until after the BD. I don't know if I should be concerned about that or not. My W has said on occasion that when things got tough, she ran in previous relationships.
Feel free to stop in on mine - I can use all of the help I can get! Haha.
It almost seems as if - maybe it is just mine - that when things of theirs get debunked, they almost go into an "insane" mode - maybe that will explain my W's attacking little things. Maybe yours, too? It just seems those crazy things your H uses is almost a cover up or some kind of excuse??
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
About 1.5 years before BD I knew things were bad. I attend a monthly women's group and there is always a speaker, quite often the topic is marriage. One speaker in particular, made me look at things with H in a different manner, and I remember clearly deciding to take a step back from my "complaining" and negativity about the IL's. I made a conscious effort to improve. And I did, I improved a lot. I am going to guess that I cut my complaints by about 50%, and let a lot slide. I made a big effort to help plan the IL's 50th anniversary party, but all of my efforts were ignored and rejected by BIL and H took an extremely passive role in the whole thing. I asked the IL's to babysit my children for a weekend and took H for a surprise anniversary trip- which he absolutely loved and the IL's loved watching the kids. I had a similar trip planned for H's birthday, but he BD'd before we got to it. So I had improved my role in the IL situation, and had also started making plans for H and I to have special time without the kids. These were things I knew were important to H.
However, I did these things quietly. In retrospect I should have told him, so he would have known that I was trying to improve our marriage based on what I knew was important to him. I don't know why I didn't tell him. I think we were never really good at talking so I thought I'd just "do it" and he'd notice. I thought he was noticing. I think what he wanted more than change was for me to validate his feelings, to listen and not react and validate. I wish I had done that in addition to making changes, and I wish I had implemented the changes sooner.
We were on a path where things were improving. At least I thought so. We were fighting less. We were connecting more- had our anniversary weekend in Oct 14, a weekend in Nov 14 to go to his cousin's wedding (without kids), I had sent D away for Christmas week in Dec 14 to reduce stress. We hadn't fought about the IL's in a long time.
But then IMO, what happened was my D- 13 at the time- hit rock bottom and was lashing out very violently and very personally and nonstop at H and he couldn't take it anymore. He was unable to get through the day without breaking down and crying, even at work. OW just happened to be at work, going through a D, and very needy and available to lend a sympathetic ear. Very easy to talk to, very easy to blame me for everything. Then H called the IL's and they blamed me too, H even admits that they "opened his eyes to what was really happening" and it all blew up from there. He admitted that he had noticed there was less stress between me and his parents, but he credited that all to their efforts, zero for me. He admitted we were spending more time together, but said those were "events" and not every day. I wish I had combined the changes I made with validation so he would have put the two together- and known I was intentionally working on meeting his needs in the marriage. Instead he dismissed all my efforts.
So, yes, I have guilt for not making H my priority, for complaining too much about IL's which caused H too much stress. For not managing D's problems and letting it get out of hand- although to be honest I went through at least a dozen different dr's with her desperate for help and couldn't find help. I did not validate. I reacted emotionally to issues with his parents instead of looking at his perspective. I am guilty of all those things.
Spiff, I am going to reply, and then go back and read your thread so I might reply there too. Yes, I agree that when a waywards' statement gets debunked they go nuts. I was shocked at the things that came out of my H's mouth, and even still, most of the anger has settled down but he is still capable of some crazy statements.
In the last 2 months twice I "caught" H realizing that one of his earlier statements was completely proven to be false, and he got a really confused look on his face and got really quiet. Big improvement over 6-9 months ago when he would have flipped out and accused me of something really odd, like causing his mother's fibromyalgia. So he is coming out of it, but it has been extremely slow and painful and I do not trust him yet.
I will get to your thread. H just walked in the door, and I have a dinner group tonight, so if I don't get to you tonight I will tomorrow morning.
We also have MC tomorrow night and I am dreading it. Overall the sessions have been going better, but in the last session H seemed really agitated over the fact that I don't like biking. With the same intensity as if I didn't like sex, or something serious. Funny thing is, it has probably been a year since H got on his bike, so wtf is he even talking about? And even then, he has a couple of guy friends who he used to bike with, can't that be his guy thing?
Thank you for visiting my thread. I will be heading over to yours.
People are rarely angry for what they seem angry about, its likely something else that's bothering him and the bike was a convenient escape for that anger. I'm sure he has lots of internal chaos going on and things he needs to work out so these events will happen. Chances to validate his feelings about stupid things, even if they are stupid, might help him open up to whats actually going on in his head/heart. Maybe tomorrow he will be pissed at the toaster for making his bread hot, who knows.
Just go into the MC with an open mind and try not to take anything personal.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Thank you Fogg. That is actually what the MC said months ago, he said that usually when someone is this angry at a spouse it is 10% at the spouse and 90% unresolved childhood issues. H looked him firmly in the eye and said "Not in this case. In this case it is ALL HER." MC said "that's what everyone says, but when you dig deep, it never is ." H said "This is the exception."
Wow is that really true? I can see my husband having unresolved childhood issues that him and his mom will deny, lie about to themselves, and ignore through work (husband) and compulsive need for clean house and holiday decorations and work and just taking on everything (mil). It's funny cause husband paints me as dysfunctional one with chaotice, critical and unorganized family.
Me: 42 H: 43 Twins age 5 Physically Separated 7/2015
Thank you Fogg. That is actually what the MC said months ago, he said that usually when someone is this angry at a spouse it is 10% at the spouse and 90% unresolved childhood issues. H looked him firmly in the eye and said "Not in this case. In this case it is ALL HER." MC said "that's what everyone says, but when you dig deep, it never is ." H said "This is the exception."
I've found when you scratch the surface on anger you almost always find hurt, fear, or both. I'm not going to diagnose your H, but there is a lot of fear in that one. The other thing I'd say is that while your H is not really putting much work in (or getting much out of) your MC, he is still going. If he were just looking for the comfort of "I tried, but it wasn't going to work," he could have stopped a long time ago. Does that tell you anything. Don't listen to what he is saying, look at what he is doing.
Now the question is whether he can deal w/ his own sh*t to be a good partner for you? You obviously have some patience and fortitude, but until he deals with his stuck emotional development, he's not going to learn the healthy R dynamics to make it work for you. He is a very stubborn one when it comes to taking responsibility or allowing someone to present reasonable alternate interpretations. That's a client that will challenge the best therapist for a long while. He's weak and scared and protecting that with all his might. He wants to be happy or he wouldn't put all that effort into defending that wounding he is protecting. You're doing great by just not letting him provoke you and allowing each attempt to attack you to wear itself out. That's really all you can do, and the best thing for him coming from you (i.e., the provoking change can't come from you - he will see that as an attack & defend harder - it is something he will likely need to feel he is in control of if he is going to overcome that level of fear.
And, imagine how depressed you'd be if you were that cut off from your own emotions and the people you were closest too and wanted badly to have a healthy connection with. And, how frustrating it would be to want that deep, deep down, but be unable to let yourself have that? That's his world. That's a lot of hurt to carry. I'm not saying you should therefore give him a pass, but that may help give you some perspective on where he seems to be from this distant view based on your necessarily limited description of your sitch. Don't take anything he says personally. It is not about you really.
And as you know from what you've reported, there are some small steps in the right direction too.
Hang in there!
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
We also have MC tomorrow night and I am dreading it. Overall the sessions have been going better, but in the last session H seemed really agitated over the fact that I don't like biking. With the same intensity as if I didn't like sex, or something serious. Funny thing is, it has probably been a year since H got on his bike, so wtf is he even talking about? And even then, he has a couple of guy friends who he used to bike with, can't that be his guy thing?
Is H asking for you to spend quality time with him? I don't know just curious? What do feel about it?
