I reread your 1st post to me and there is some misunderstanding.
Quote:
Let me summarise my understanding. You have a W with an LL of physical touch, you have a marriage you say is sex starved. A W who says initiate more contact, seduce me. You love your W, and your W wants physical contact and as yet hasn't gone off the rails completely. You aren't sure how to initiate. You want to S with a W who wants close? You want to reduce connection with a W who craves connection. Your testosterone is ok.
Any of your goals are about being fitter and looking better?
Honey, 180 on this. Sandi has it spot on and so have others on the seducton leadership issue. You agree and then deflect.
So what I would like to see is goals built around physical touch. Yours, they can be foot rubs, taking her coat off. I don't care. My H1 used to gently stroke my arm playing word spells on my back. He combed my hair. I am physical touch and have a high sex drive, without contact wth my mate in this way I loose interest but I won't cheat. I adore kissing, rudeness but mainly ordinary every day stuff. There are ways of helping your W to get her rocks off wthout having penetrative sex. You can even keep your clothes on.
I don't want to separate. W is asking me to leave the family home. I don't want to reduce connection, W does and has been detaching from me for years (ILYBINILWY) .
Yes I do have a seduction/ leadership issue which would need to be sorted out. But how can I do that now in the present climate were I can't touch her, I can't date her, I can't see ILY, I can't pursue?
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
You don't leave the house, unless you want to and you feel it will help the situation. The general opinion on here is that if your W is the one who wants to leave the R, then she should leave the house. My personal viewpoint, however, is that my in house separation has sapped me of energy and every day has caused me to have anxiety nightmares. In the end, if it wasn't to see my kids every day, and the financial costs of renting somewhere, I'd have gone.
So, you can see that she has been throwing huge crumbs at you for the past few days and you've been gobbling them up. Don't panic, we've all done it. It's that hope that you hang on for. Truly, the moment it all clicked is when I relaxed and let go. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to, but for my own sanity and health, this is the only way to get the party started.
So, how much weight have you lost? How many sleepless nights have you been having? How long do you just sit and stare at your computer screen thinking of nothing else but you sitch? It's the 'all consumingness' that will hurt you. Let go, detach and watch the whole dynamic start to change.
M 45 W 52 SD22 S9 D8 BD 6 April 2015 Not living together 4 Dec 2015
You don't leave the house, unless you want to and you feel it will help the situation. The general opinion on here is that if your W is the one who wants to leave the R, then she should leave the house. My personal viewpoint, however, is that my in house separation has sapped me of energy and every day has caused me to have anxiety nightmares. In the end, if it wasn't to see my kids every day, and the financial costs of renting somewhere, I'd have gone.
So, you can see that she has been throwing huge crumbs at you for the past few days and you've been gobbling them up. Don't panic, we've all done it. It's that hope that you hang on for. Truly, the moment it all clicked is when I relaxed and let go. Don't get me wrong, I didn't want to, but for my own sanity and health, this is the only way to get the party started.
So, how much weight have you lost? How many sleepless nights have you been having? How long do you just sit and stare at your computer screen thinking of nothing else but you sitch? It's the 'all consumingness' that will hurt you. Let go, detach and watch the whole dynamic start to change.
Hi Huddy,
Thanks for checking in.
It is sapping me everyday, and also W , she is not sleeping properly and is irritable. Any tiny indiscretion on my part is highlighted, leaving lights on, doors open, not recycling properly, all the small stuff. I just try to ignore or validate rather than get into a fight.
Xmas arrangements are also creating tension.
Every year we start Xmas day in our house then either visit my family or W family in the afternoon. Then swap on Boxing Day so that we always see both sides of the family over the two days. We are visiting W family on Boxing Day and my family is quite small. My dad will visit my sister but we haven't been invited as sister wants a quiet Xmas as her H is working. W doesn't want to spend all day with just me ( and vice versa) - hence the tension.
And don't mention NYE - W will definitely not want me with her.
It feels like I'm sleep walking to the next BD sometime in the NY. I know that detachment is key to my sanity but it is so so hard. I would separate if it wasn't financially catastrophic - W would say it's worth the financial pain to separate and see where we are in 6 months.
The thing I miss the most is the phone calls either when she goes to work or on her way home when she would ring to tell me about her day. Now it's all about the kids.
Next week I will be working away M-F so that will help me detach, though I'm sure I'll get anxious.
Last night I went to my 3rd salsa class - again I really enjoyed it - just dancing with women is good for my self-confidence Tonight I'm taking boys to Kickboxing. W might be back from work in time. She is away in South England for the day.
I am a good man, and deserve more than this. I've owned my part in all of this pre 2012 and subsequently fixed my physical and mental attitude. But I didn't own the Sex and romance Dept after 2012 - my biggest failure.
If someone asked W she would rewrite history and say the MR has been dead for 10 years - she hasn't loved me for that time. BS of course.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
You can't worry too much about W. She has got herself in to this situation, she will have to get herself out of it. No doubt she will play the pity card. Be careful not to fall in to this void.
Christmas and New Year is going to be tricky. Personally, I hated all that going to in-laws/family stuff and in the end, they had to come to us. I just couldn't bring myself to drag the kids from pillar to post, watching other people get royally p*****, whilst I was the taxi driver. So, the question should be 'What is IS and his kids doing for Christmas?'. What do you want bud?
You need to try and get sleep. I had Nytol for a while. It smells and tastes like horsesh1t, but it did give me about six hours. In the end though, I didn't like the idea of pills, so toughed it out. I still get the anxiety nightmares, but they are less frequent and not in colour anymore (I remember reading something about dreaming in colour and the psychology of it all - it's probably online).
Salsa classes sound great. It seems like a way to de stress, and it works on your confidence.
You are a better man that the situation you are in. It's good that you're thinking like that. You can own sex etc. and you'll probably have to work on your shyness. That, however, will have to wait until you have an R, and that could take a while. I had a friend once, who described his lack of sexual partners as 'shaking hands with the unemployed'. If you get what I mean!
M 45 W 52 SD22 S9 D8 BD 6 April 2015 Not living together 4 Dec 2015
Just venting a bit on here helps lot as I have NO ONE to talk to about this.
I stopped the Nytol about 10 days ago, sleep is still broken as I wake every 2-3 hours but I dont have the fuzzy head in the morning. I dont have nightmares, just a churning brain.
The salsa is great and I actually look forward to it. I also listen to 'confidence' tapes by a well known hypnotist in the UK. It always puts me to sleep lol! - not sure if its having any effect but I'm certainly more chatty when meeting people. Its certainly not detrimental so worth persisting with.
Last edited by isittoolate; 11/17/1511:54 AM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
1. When W says she wants to work on the MR . And maybe another after 1. Is achieved 2. When W says she would like Us/her to see an IC/MC
So.........your achiement depends upon your W doing particular actions? When your W says she wants to work on the MR............what percise actions were you doing in working to this end (when she says she wants to work on the MR)? That's what we are trying to get you to see.
When she says she wants to work on the MR, tells you what you are hoping to hear.......but what did you do to get there?
You see, when you say, " When my W says........." or "When my W does......", it puts the action in her court....not yours. A goal is something you work to reach a particular achievement. I think you may be saying that you know you have achieved your goal when your W says she wants to work on the MR. My question is what are you doing to achieve it?
We encourage people to make goals about themselves b/c you can set goals on another person's action. Why? B/c you have no control over the other person. You have control over yourself, so the goals must be about your personal action. See what I mean?
In other words, someone could set on their backside and not do one thing, yet they say their goal is for the W to do this or that. Actually, that person has made goals for his wife, not himself.
How can you make a goal based on another person where you have no control in their decision or action? It is giving the W all the power over whether or not that person's goal was accomplished.
Your goals should be in your control to achieve the outcome. Just make it simple about what you want to achieve and how you will do it.
I can say "when my H compliments me on my weight loss". But that statement is not telling you what my goal is. You can guess. It doesn't tell you what I am doing to lose weight, does it? Or, maybe I'm not trying to lose weight. Maybe I am wanting to hear him give a compliment. See how confusing it sounds to the reader?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
isittoolate, just curious, are you reading DR? Sounds like you are making 'goals' based on the framework provided there (but probably too vague still). In the examples given in DR, 'goals' are not within your control. They are described in basically the same way you have them. I call these 'signposts' now because using the term goals for them does not make sense to me and it confuses people when they read my thread. To me, the term goals should always deal with something within your control, like Sandi mentions.
Yes the 'goals' in DR are confusing as they are not in our control. They are more like a destination or signpost as you say.
We all have more or less the same ultimate goal. Reconciliation with our W/M.
I first had W goals based on what I wanted to happen.
Goal 1: When my W says she would like Us or Her to see a MC/IC Goal 2: When she hugs me or touches me in a loving way – spontaneously and not out of pity Goal 3: When she complements me on a change I have made i.e. more QT with the kids, how I look or dress.
But I cannot control these goals so I switched to W goals based on the LRT.
I will not follow W around house like a puppy dog... I will not initiate conversation with W but will engage when she does... I will not txt, or phone her unless she does first ... I will change the evening dynamic to be less available for her... I will continue to perform some house duties as before BD but not extra...
Mr Bond advised that these were too negative and lead to me ignoring W in an in-house separation and I needed to set positive goals to set a positive direction with my interactions with W.
So I switched to :
1. When W uses her nickname for me (affectionate nickname) more frequently either written or vocally. This will mean she is thinking of me more positively.
2. When W says she would like Us/her to see an IC/MC. An ultimate goal?
3. When W asks for a shoulder rub or foot massage. The most neutral form of physical touch.
4. When W compliments me on a positive change I have made since BD i.e. 'Your such a good father to the kids' 5. When W wears her wedding band again. 6. When W is 'happy' to go out with me at a function without the kids - even as 'friends'
My actions were to be:
To work towards being a more confident, self assured individual, and eliminating any remaining Nice Guy tendencies. To be more lighthearted and flirty, chatty with the opposite sex, Someone who W will respect and find attractive. How: Taking more responsibility for organising childcare, being involved with my kids after school activities, volunteering for the scouts, loving and playing with my children more, taking more responsibility for daily household organiation and continue with my fitness and GAL regime.
but again these are out of my control except for the action points which are within my control.
So I am back to square 1 and will try again. I guess I just need personal action points which lead to positive interactions with W. Keep it simple.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
Have been feeling a bit low all day - lack of unbroken sleep and working from home with too much thinking time.
After school I collected boys, fed them and got them ready for Kickboxing class. W got home just in time to come with us to the class. We went in my car at W's suggestion which is new as she normally would go in her car.
After Kickboxing class we got home and I went into office while W prepared our evening meal, her lunch and S11 lunch for next day. I had decided to keep a low profile. Anyway she came into office and said 'You can come and talk to me in the kitchen if you like' ' That's if you still want to' She had a coy expression on her face. I validated and followed her.
Convo was about Xmas arrangements during which W also said 'I hope we are still getting each other presents''But not as much as usual'' Im getting you about 4'
Normally it would be about 8 big and small presents each - we tend to spoil each other at Xmas. NB I have always been a very thoughtful and loving gift buyer. Its also W's birthday the week before Xmas and I would get her 6-8 presents for that as well! I actually start to make a list of presents for W immediately after Xmas and add to it all year!
Anyway W then shouted after me as I left the room ' Hope your getting me a birthday present as well' in a joking manner - I just said 'Of course!'
Then later we went to watch the start of the England - France soccer game and she teased me about the chocolate I 'stole' off her a few weeks ago. I teased her back and managed to rub her back for a few seconds - first physical contact for 10 days. We joked around and I dug her in the ribs in a friendly way and grabbed the back of her neck - friendly!
Later the boys came in to play chess against me - yes chess! the W brought my dinner in on a tray and sat next to me - close. She played Hangman with S8 and I played chess with S11.
It was nice and homely and felt good.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
