Hey anc, from my thread I wanted to bring to convo to you for continuity.
First I want to tell you thank you for being such an amazing soul. The fact that you are here despite 'the husband butt-headedness' tells me loads about you. Reading your posts over the last couple of months tells me so much more!
----------------------------------------------------------- From my thread:
I see a lot of myself in your wife's past behaviors. Our situations are different because you didn't dive off the deep end like my H, and become an abusive butt-head. I truly realize that until H comes to his senses and apologizes for his treatment of me, I'm better off with complete NC/total darkness.
In my self-reflection, though, as I'm striving to learn all I can about myself so that I can fix what needs fixing and grow into the best person I can be, I see so clearly my own actions and behaviors that led to the demise of my M. I understand I am in no way responsible for H' s choices. I am responsible for his getting to a point that there was a choice. Does that make sense? I accept responsibility for me and my actions. I acknowledge I helped put H in a bad position. I'm NOT responsible for his choice of behaviors.
I'm attempting to get to the point..LOL
My behaviors are on me. I want to fix them. I'd like H to someday see that I heard what he said, took his complaints to heart, and worked on it. How can that happen if we're totally NC? We share adult children, but until the day he apologizes for treating me so cruelly, I plan to not speak to him...ever.
You may say it's too early for me to worry about it. Divorce is inevitable at this point. I'm as fine with that as I can be since he's out actively bedding OW. Is there redemption possible? Does a man completely stop loving? Is he so hurt by her apparent apathy that his heart turns cold? I just want him to know how deeply sorry I am for not having been what he needed me to be. I could have done more, Z...and I didn't.
Maybe I just need to accept that there is no real way to tell. I'm trying to look into the future, aren't I? What can you males tell me, from your point of view, what can I do to gain forgiveness? I didn't cheat or lie...I just withdrew to the point of not being there at all. H says I really hurt him. There's probably truth in that statement...No happily married person jumps into MLC.
I'm shaking my head at myself right now. Clearly, I still deeply love my H. He is toxic to me at the moment. NC is the best way to proceed. I would cut off my arm to save him. I'm so worried about the cost to his soul his awful choices are causing. (And I hear the chorus...let him go)
So, Z...since I see so much of myself in your wife, what happened that changed the dynamic? Do you have advice for me with that type of behavior in mind? I've given you tons of questions here, you and the other guys...but it's so helpful to get a male perspective.
There are a lot of questions in there, I think some were for me and some were for you :
You have chosen to look deep inside and change the way that you behave / react / live. I didn't say FIX, because you are not broken like so many counselors or 'experts' say. I think that it is Bullshit to say someone is broken in that context.
I think that we are all wired differently and the fact that you can see your issues in the past is GOLDEN. if you can continue to look at your history within your marriage, there is hope. You are right, your were not responsible for your Husbands choice, neither is he responsible for yours. As for redemption, that is always possible while you keep the door open and the bridge unburnt.
Now to specific questions in terms of your husband. I can answer from my perspective, first hand accounts of men in my position and second hand accounts in postings that I have read.
Your husband is still so very angry. plain and simple, angry because his needs were not met. angry because he was not appreciated - or shown that appreciation. He is angry that for so long he was not happy with the marriage the way he thought it should have been. Angry that you were closed off from him.
Is that on you, well mostly NO and maybe just a little yes .
No because he is responsible for his own happiness and should not have relied on you for that aspect of his upkeep. We rely so much on the woman’s validating our manliness, etc….too much so really. I would say most men have no idea that this is how it should be. I didn't, that is for sure. we have these expectations on how our marriage should be, nice guys are terrible about that...when we have unmet expectations it turns into resentment...resentment ultimately turns to anger. The woman is responsible for the emotional upkeep of the marriage, when they don’t $hit just falls apart. Men have no idea how to make that work, really most can’t cope with that and they get fed up and angry and leave. I see in on the boards, In my neighborhood and in my family. Sad, yes.
I've read thousands of posting in marriages where the men just get pi$$ed that they are not appreciated, made to feel special, not shown the 'love' they 'deserve'. (two way street, I know, but you are here so I can't tell him ) It always turns into anger eventually. That is on HIM. If we were all emotionally aware, and able to meet our own emotional needs then things would be different I guess, but that is not how things are.
But there was a yes in there too. That comes down to how we get to the point where we stop really showing appreciation for things. men, especially prototypical nice guys need that show of appreciation for them working, doing, whatever. Eventually they stop. We know that acts of service, physical touch, WOA, gifts, QT, all of it is a gift of love...just different ways to express it. When we start to live without fulfilling those most precious LL's for our spouses, they almost start to reject the other ones out of anger. I see it all the time where a wife thinks she is doing something nice by giving husband a nice gift and he basically disregards it or whatever, because it really isn't what he wanted as his reward for his endeavors.
I am not saying this is the answer to your quandaries as what can you do, I am just giving a background for why sooo many husbands get PO'd and snap. he finds someone after years of 'disappointment' and 'unhappiness' that shows him appreciation or a little twinkle and he is gone. This is not that dissimilar with women ( boy do I know that the door swings both ways )...it is mostly just different love languages. Was there something in his past that exacerbated this, maybe. Yours, maybe.
So what can you do?. He needs to go down his own path. One thing you can do, validation of his pain can work wonders. He is angry at you still and has love for you. As long as there is anger in his heart, though that will be hard for him to change. That MLC path will be his to follow. You can start, though to change the path home. you read about validating your MLC'r, right...not just what he is saying now or what his feelings are now, but validating his pain from longing or not understanding or wanting to feel appreciated.
If you are still keeping score about who did what and when, that needs to stop. I am not talking about whipping the slate clean, because the past has information that you need and you still have to evaluate all of what has gone on here. I am talking about stopping any retribution for his actions and keeping track. Forgiveness will need to come, YES IT WILL, that is the only way you are going to make it past this whole thing, but that is for you!
As to their heart being cold, I have no idea how long your husband has been in his 'state' he could be a long ways off from being ready to even looking at himself. I think that those folks on the MLC forum will give you a better idea of how truly far away his is from seeking a way home.
At some point, " I just want him to know how deeply sorry I am for not having been what he needed me to be. I could have done more, Z...and I didn't " will need to be said, written to him to basically explain that. A letter of explanation and understanding of what was the undoing from your side…. if I heard that from my wife, think I would faint. Really I would. At some point, just not right now. Maybe one of the vets would be able to handle the when part. Things need to be a little calmer for that sort of thing to make an impact…if they are just fuming, nothing you say will make a bit of difference.
One more thought of the future: He might be toxic right now, yes...lets just imagine something, what if he wasn't. just imagine if his heart wasn't cold to you. just imagine that he is no longer angry, would be come home? What would be different this time? He spent 20+ years of his life with you, how would this go around be any different. Is what he would need from you something that you could be?
Can you be the compassionate / appreciative person he would need moving forward? was his desires for physical intimacy / QT / WOA something that you feel would compromise who you are now or would want to be in the future ( I don't know him from Adam so forgive me if I've missed the boat on my guess of what his LL's are)? I am not suggesting you need to turn yourself into a sex slave (please don't think that is where I am going like that). I am only asking if his needs could be met by you in the future...is that something you could do or is it just too far apart for it to be realistic?
As for now, you keep focus on you for now. Forgiveness for yourself and working towards the rebuilding of the connection with your kids. You keep with your IC sessions - no excuses. When you have interactions with your H...STFU & Validate, you need to evaluate your boundaries and make sure you are protecting yourself. Your 180's can be shown during those times you see him. He will see them, I promise, especially when he has an expected response from you and you show him a pleasant change instead.
One more thing I wanted to touch on with you before I forget and it is a little off topic, it is a concept of emotional currency. You had mentioned a sort of bartering system with sex that it seemed like happened. I think that there is some truth about how I’ve witnessed things in my marriage as well as in others, where I thought I should get x if I did Y. maybe that was how my relationship started, not sure about yours. But if you think about that…was there a system in place that just changed? Was that something to look at. Now for me I know now how that cannot work, physical affection and sex are not currency, they are gifts in and of themselves and the gifts must be given of free will otherwise it is not a gift at all. I am pretty sure most men do not see it that way.
Sorry, but I typed this all rather quickly and much of it on my phone, so sorry for bad grammar or spelling or punctuation or continuity. I know I type too much and am not concise in my thoughts too, so for that I apologize if confusing.
I will be around if you have any questions, I would love to be able to help!!! Hopefully if I am off base, you can tell me thanks-but-no-thanks or someone will be glad to tear this apart better than I.
. 
