I hope you don't mind me saying. But I think you are FANTASTICALLY FABULOUS.
I haven't been reading your sitch long. But you are indeed one of the most wonderfully dynamic women I have come across in a long time. Your are so intelligent, and I mean you are both smart intellectually and emotionally. You are warm, you are interested in the world around you, you engage and are engaging.
I have been attempting to understand the dynamic of your sitch with husband, because I don't get it , quite frankly he doesn't realise the amazing wife and gift you are. Using DB terminology he is a fool.
For the last two weeks the question I keep asking myself is what would happen if Pho for one reason or another stopped doing what Pho does. Which is everything btw .
I really do wonder what would husband do? what would kids do? what would In laws do?
(Btw MIL needs to be gracefully ignored at all costs - she is an energy zapper/soul destroyer) . If you want to read good intel on how to support a Spouse with a parent/child separation issue find Edz thread. He is not here anymore, he successfully DBd his marriage. But his MIL was a sticking point for his relationship- Edz managed everything was such grace. PP reminds me a lot of Edz energy - peaceful/composed, but gorgeous male vulnerability)
Back on track. What if Pho just decided one day, that she wasn't going to get out of bed before 12 pm. What if Pho decided she needed residential treatment and not her daughter.
I know I am being fanciful in some ways. I have seen this often with dynamic women. You are indeed so good at keeping all the balls in the air, that everyone stops being impressed by the feat that it is, and they back off and let you keep juggling, while they become obsessed with their tummy button fluff.
The other question I had is what happens when Pho says "no". I find the family therapists comments interesting about you having no voice. My view is slightly different. How can a woman who does everything for everybody have no voice? You are so busy talking to everybody and everyone about everything. My sense about you Pho, you have a voice Pho, and by gods it is powerful. Girl you get S**t done!!! Your voice hails though foreverybody else's agenda and needs and not your own.
I wonder what saying no without explanation would do in your household. I hear your response, chaos would prevail, every body would be upset with you, everyone would blame you, everyone would demand that you do it their way. But Pho don't they already. Doesn't everyone in your household make you responsible for their level and experience of happiness and contentment. What if they could still behave exactly as they are now and you actually get your needs met. You saying no would maintain the status quo for them.
Zues did some lovely writing on 4mykids thread, about the power of asking for what you want. It is a skill, not one I have perfected. I wonder what this would do for you. I talk about saying no as a starting place as sometimes it is easier to deal with than figuring out how to ask for what you want. No is simple. And "No that doesn't work for right now"...."No, I will have to think about that". I purposely went through a stage of saying no, even when I wanted to say yes, just so I could practice and get people to get use to me saying no. So i could get use to hearing myself say No.
Anyway Pho these are just some reflections. I really couldn't do what you do Pho. Please don't underestimate the power you have to change what is happening, because right now I see your Superhero qualities and I'm f***** impressed.
PB: Pho give me some time to talk to some of my therapist ( I have a a friend who is a paediatric occupational therapist and works with a lot of children with neurological conditions and social work friends who work in the areas you are talking about and I will get back you about some possible ideas or resources.
JellyB, thank you so much. Not only for the wonderful compliments, which I dearly appreciate since I am trying so hard for everybody, but for the research and time you put into your post. I have been so impressed with your insight on other's posts, and am eager to re-read and reflect on what you have written to me. I will also read Edz thread and Zues's post. I will read the links from V. I will post now, because my brain is spinning, but then I will take the time to digest your post, and V's and get back to both of you.
One of things I did not mention is that D's counselor, psychiatrist, and the new family therapist are all in the same location and its an hour away. This is the hospital where D was in her partial hospitalization program for 3 months last spring. D misses a lot of school every time she has an appointment (usually 3-4 hours) and I don't think they are helping all that much. I am thinking of "firing" that whole group, finding a local counselor to talk to D. I have one in mind. She is 15 minutes away and works with a psychiatrist, so maybe I could combine those appointments. Or if she is not available, maybe she could see S's counselor and they could take turns. He is also 15 minutes away and I really like him.
H will be leaving for his job soon, so put off family therapy until he returns. With the hope that if each individual's stress level is reduced by then we may not need a family therapist, or if we do the work we do there will be much more effective because each person will be healthier.
As far as saying no. What exactly should I say no to? Last night my S wouldn't stop complaining and crying about his sister, kept coming to my room to "talk" and "cry" I lead him back to his room and told him I was sleeping, he could cry quietly so as not to wake me up, or just wait until the morning to talk. He chose to cry quietly (he wasn't that quiet, he cries loudly to try to get my attention, like a baby, this is new for him and it breaks my heart) and then he apologized to me in the morning. Is that what you mean by setting a boundary? I felt at the time that it was the only course of action other that was appropriate, but it didn't feel good.
I have set some boundaries with H since BD and I *think* they were respected but I haven't followed up on them. Without getting too bogged down in the details, in May I asked him to stop getting drunk and raging at me. He stopped. In August I asked him to go "no contact" with OW as I found out they were still having "friendly chats." I think he agreed. I haven't followed up or snooped. And in September I asked him to not discuss me or our marital issues with his parents. He had resisted this one for months, it was a huge issue, they had been raging and spewing at me alongside of him for months, but finally he agreed. I haven't followed up with this one either, have no idea if it was respected, but he now leaves his laptop and phone unguarded. (He had been receiving emails from FIL such as "My Wife is a Controlling Bitch"....Sound like W? , and divorce articles, and links to D attorneys. ) Anyway, he leaves his laptop unguarded but I haven't snooped once since May. (The email I saw in May was so hate filled from FIL that I literally vomited.)
I would like to say "no" a lot more. But not sure when, and want to pick my battles wisely. So much is going on that I'd like to prioritize and strategize so I know what I am working towards.
What I really need is for my children to manage their stress better, for my children to become more independent (making progress here), and for my husband to get out of limbo with the are we or aren't we staying married thing. I have been in limbo for too long. I need an answer. Not today, not tomorrow, but in the near future.
What I really want from life is well adjusted children, a fully engaged coparent, a fully engaged male companion (and yes sex is a part of that), someone to joke with, share experiences with, confide in, laugh with, share with- mostly companionship, yes its nice if he will pay the bills but I can always go back to work, what I want is the companionship. And finally I want to start working on achieving the goals on my bucket list- things that will keep life exciting and interesting and fun.
The rest of it- whether I go back to work or not, whether the IL's give me advance notice of visits or just drop in, whether we sell our house and move into someplace smaller and more manageable, or whether H travels frequently or stays home more, all of that, are details that I can figure out later but are not really core to my needs and or wants. I am not saying they aren't important, but I am saying that maybe if I focus on my actual needs as a foundation then I can move on to my wants.
OK. Off to make dinner and then playtime with my boys, followed by reading up on the links and threads mentioned by Jelly and V. Not a bad evening! My D is sleeping at a friends house, so we have some quiet tonight.
H just realized that I blocked him from FB. I blocked him a few months ago when I was on vacation at my parents, hadn't heard from him in days, not even a text, and when I logged on to FB a message popped up that said my status had changed from married to unmarried. I got really upset, called H and he was downright rude to me, said he deactivated his account, and was just really mean. So I blocked him because I didn't want to be distracted by checking all the time to see if he was back on, also he had previously untagged himself and blocked any pics of the two of us. But had pics of himself with another woman.
So I was getting upset, and didn't want to be checking his FB or tempted to look, so I blocked him. I should add him back again, right? He is texting me like crazy tonight, I guess he finally noticed. Should I just add him and not say anything? I don't want to get into a fight about it. His FB behavior was hurtful to me so I blocked him. Can I say that? Should I just say nothing?
Mini-crisis over, H called and I answered and was very breezy. He asked "did you block me on FB" And I laughed and said "Yes, I did. I just unblocked you though and sent you a friend request." And he said "You unfriended me AND blocked me?" And I just laughed and said "Yes! Months ago! All clear now though," and changed the topic to my new addition to my bucket list, I am going to see Elton John in concert. I added to my bucket list to see as many "big names" in concert. H said he'd join me, he'd fly in to meet me while he is on travel and I didn't even ask him. That is huge progress!
I love how in tune you are about the care your daughter and son are receiving. As a social worker, who worked with families who had children with special needs, I loved working with families where they were really clear about their expectations of professionals and were happy to communicate what was working and what wasn't. Pho keep the professionals on their toes, challenge them to find creative interventions that really work for you and the children in real ways.
What does your daughter have to say about a possible change in her health practitioners and possible treatment plan? Would a change cause her excessive anxiety? Is you daughter aware that this could make the wider family situation better? (ok potentially a stupid question given she is a teenager), but still worth considering. 14 year old girls in my experience are one the most challenging client groups to work with- their changeability is to say the least frustrating, at the worst dangerous. But in saying that your daughter is at age where becoming more responsible for her condition is important. The way you describe your darling girl, I get the sense that she is very smart, and is acutely aware of how adults operate around her condition and in response to her. I would invite her to be part of the decision making.
Your management of your darling son was perfect and exactly what I would have anticipated as your parenting style. Quiet, clear and supportive of your son discovering ways to self soothe. He also demonstrated beautiful insight and empathy in providing an apology the next morning. Not that an apology was necessary, but appreciated. This is never an easy step building his self confidence, and self care skills in the hope it will lead to further independence. You did amazing as did darling son. This is a win, hope you guys celebrated with a happy dance!!
Your boundary setting with Husband is outstanding Pho. He is tentatively learning that Pho can and will assert herself calmly when the situation calls for. This is preparing him for his next step back into being your husband and father to his children. He doesn't realize that you are strategically supporting him to become both of these things. Just quietly he needs to man up regarding his participation in Team Pho and Children. Unfortunately, Pho your husbands response to parenting children with special needs is all to common. I would have recommended family therapy too.
What tends to happen in my experience, is that the children and the primary caregiver become a really good team. The parent, the one providing most of the day to day care, learns the nuances of the condition and the way their child responds. The other parent, doesn't often develop the understanding and practices that soothe the child and feels inadequate. This parent often starts to disappear into the background, because "nothing I do helps"..."she only wants you"..."I make things worse for him". Gradually this parent abdicates all parenting responsibilities and care. In the meantime the other parent and the children are creating a a really tightknit group. They often form a communication that the outside parent doesn't understand. The outside parent feels like an intruder in the family system. The children start to feel they have status over the outside parent. The adults involved forget about their alliances to each other, the fact they are team first. And even though both parties want to be reconnected, the dynamics are such now that it will take a significant amount of trust and commitment to realign the roles and status each party should have. Family therapy is a way to support this realignment of roles and status. I would have loved to have worked with your Husband.
I had a read back over my last post and I thought about what point I really was trying to make. I guess I was trying to communicate, was the idea of MWD talks about Divorce Remedy in that we can offer do too much in a relationship, where it gives permission or allows the other spouse not to step up. I find I do it in my personal life and at times professionally with clients. Just by to much doing, others stop doing for themselves.
I appreciate that motherhood is a never ending cycle of doing. But women need to be careful that they are not doing just because we can't trust other's to do for themselves. I guess when I wonder about you not doing so much, would it mean that your family would do more for themselves. The parts they are supposed to do. That is in no way a critique Pho. As I said I fall into this one regularly.
I hope I haven't offended you in any way with what I have offered. As I said previously I have a huge amount of respect for you. I just think you are the beez kneez.
I 100% agree about your assessment about your NEEDS and WANTS. You are getting very close Pho really!!!
JellyB, I truly am touched by the amount of care and thought you have given to me in your post. Thank you and please know that you would never offend me, I am here for help and I am blown away by the amount of support and encouragement that you are providing to me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
My D will be thrilled to cut ties with her current counselor. She does not like the process at all, and frankly, I am surprised that they still see her because she keeps saying that she won't cooperate or talk to them. Maybe she is more cooperative when the door is closed and I don't see it. A good friend of mine says she has gone through several counselors with her d because as soon as her d says she isn't going to cooperate the counselor cancels the appointment, so not sure why they are more lenient with my d. To be honest, my D did very well in the intensive program but I haven't seen any improvement since then, not sure if its the current counselor or my D just reached a plateau. She is also resisting her meds (prozac) and says she feels better when off them. Her OCD tendencies do seem to be much better managed, so maybe she is right.
Your description of the family dynamic seems very accurate. I would like to add that my daughter's problems, and disabilities, are "invisible" so for years we were not sure if we were dealing with a behavioral issue vs. an emotional/psychological issue. So there has always been the question of "is this a result of our parenting skills? Is this a discipline issue?". Which is still an issue even with a diagnosis, because there is a behavioral component as well as the medical. And then there is the fact that my IL's believe I "caused" all of this and they unleashed this theory on H when he was feeling most desperate and vulnerable and he bought it hook, line and sinker. Also I caused MIL's fibromyalgia and destroyed her life, so I am really evil.
I understand what you are saying about doing too much. I don't understand though which things I should stop doing.
I have stopped helping kids with their homework, I do remind them to do it, but I don't even check it unless they ask me for help. (They rarely do, and have completely surprised me with their ability to take responsibility for this.)
I have been working on trying not to console S11 when he gets hysterical, I ask him to use words instead of crying and hitting his hands against walls and the floor. He tells me he is angry that I am not "helping him". His IC advised me to not give S suggestions for coping, but rather to ask him to come up with suggestions. But when I do he just says "I want you to help me." He has IC again tomorrow so I can relate this to the IC and maybe they can come up with some ideas together.
I am also giving all three children more chores, they are pretty spoiled so I should step that up a bit. But they have been doing more, they all put away their own laundry, rinse their own dishes, S9 feeds the dog, D walks the dog, S11 is great at keeping the kids rec room clean, and then there are things I ask them to do as needed such as sweeping, taking out garbage, etc. Also they all help me carry in groceries.
Since I have been GAL'ing, H has been having more nights with the kids, but he doesn't really do anything with them. He works on his laptop and pretty much ignores them, but it is a big change in the dynamic. Although he is leaving in January for 6 months so there goes that.
And my kids are old enough that I can leave them for a couple of hours anyway, I just wouldn't leave them at bedtime especially on a school night.
Thank you Jelly. I am going to think more on this and find more ways to "let go" and encourage independence. The H part is hard because he is leaving soon. He has in the past complained that when he travels he is not in touch with the kids, so this time he mentioned that he wants to FaceTime the kids while he is gone. I said "why don't you find a time of the day that works for them and you (he will be in a different time zone) and make it a part of your daily routine to FaceTime them?" I can help from this end with suggesting times but he has to pick up the phone and make the call. It really is not my responsibility to make this happen, it is H's.
Please keep your thoughts coming. This is very helpful.
In other news, I completely forgot to mention that one day last week H gave me a hug and he commented that my hair smelled good. I have a fairly large supply of mini shampoos and conditioners from H's travels that I have been using, so I have no idea what I used that day. So now I am going to seek out good smelling hair care products since apparently he noticed. I alternate between feeling like a confident woman, a heartbroken woman, and a teenage girl trying to impress a boy.
H and I are getting into a stupid text fight right now and I don't know how to stop it and he won't call me. This is so awful. This is going on too long and this hurts too bad.
Fight over. He called me, we "talked" it out, emotionally, but it went better than our disagreements in the past, I am hoping when he gets home tonight at midnight he will not be holding a grudge. Stupid argument about FB but also made me realize that we are nowhere near ready for R, and that H is still harboring a lot of anger and still has a strong need to "be right". I am back in STFU mode.
What I said- I had blocked him because he had deactivated his account, which changed my R status from married to unknown, and he had taken down all pics of me. I blocked him because this was distracting me and I didn't want to go on FB 10x per day to see if he had activated his account yet and what his relationship status was, thought it would be healthier for me to just not look.
He said he has a right to control his image on FB and what pics are posted and he was hurt that I blocked him without discussing it with him. I said we were not capable of discussing things at that point, and now that he is back on FB I unblocked him. I said too much, revealed too much hurt, he revealed anger and surprisingly now that I am writing up my post I am realizing that he was hurt that I blocked him, so that reveals feelings on his part, doesn't it? Apparently he had googled about the deactivated account changing marital status and said it doesn't do that and I had to do that manually, so apparently that bothered him.
So he does have feelings.
But, and this I will not and can not bring up to him, the woman he accused me for months of being insanely jealous of is featured in a pic on his timeline, they went to a show together (with her husband too) a few months ago and there is a picture of them hugging but he has taken down all pics of me. Apparently he is asserting his "right" to have female friends and this is still an issue as he selectively left that pic in and took down anything with me. I will not say a word but I think he is clearly still in self-centered mode.
I hate FB right now and I hate texting because this conversation would have gone better in person. I am going to go right now and change my relationship status back to married. That is good, right?
I will edit my post because H accuses me of exaggerating and I am working on it. For the sake of honesty, H is not hugging the woman in the picture, they are sitting next to each other and her arm is around him. So yes maybe I am jealous in that I call that a hug. I do not thin he "likes" her but I do think he doesn't "like" me so therein lies the problem, and that was always the problem. Well, one of the problems.
I hate fighting like this, I hate FB, I hate this whole thing, it is too hard to be in this state of marital discord for this long period of time, I want boring drama free life back.
