Awesome post Zephyr(Mark), you have learned so much on this journey and I see it's not been easy. The internal growth you have experienced is worth it and can only help you in the future. I think we all want our S's to help but we may just be at the point where we have done all we can and it's their time to figure things out. I know that's been my thoughts the last few days. I guess patience is all that's left, that and time to see how it all plays out. Stay strong buddy.
-John
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Hi Zeph! I have a couple of thoughts for you. Regarding CSA, boy, that can be a rough one. The women I know who have difficulty with relationships because of it don't sound too much like your W. Ironically, they seem to flit from man to man without a care. They cannot trust, so the opportunity for a real connection is probably slim. On the other hand, I do know some WAS got help early ans did a lot of reading and learning on the dubject. Their marriages are pretty successful.
It's not a death knell if your suspicions are correct. It just means more patiience.
Is it possible you are watching your wife too closely? I can't back up the statement with clear evidence, but is an impression I got when reading your thread. Something to think about.
I met a girl when i was 19. She was 18 at the time. We were pretty good friends for the year we shared in college. She confided in me, hat she had been raped five times by different men. I was shocked and amazed how well she was considering. She was a tough and strong yet gentle character. She said she would not change her past as it made her the person she was then. This is totally irrelevant to your situation but it goes to show different people react differently. Don't assume the faith or your marriage because of statistics. Maybe your W will be part of the few that can function fully in a R.
I have never met your W and I feel bad for her. Guess I care about others and this was enhanced by going through my situation. You too have enormously throughout this process, but you are aware of that.
I wish you well, my friend
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
John, thank you as always for your support. It is very funny how we gain so much from this group that we don't even know.
Roiste, I appreciate your kind words and I want to thank you for your continued support for me and my family.
Anc, I have been watching my wife for years and years, you are spot on with that observation. The abuse did happen. She told me back over 20 years ago when we started to become sexual. Maybe I am too close and keep looking and trying to understand why the emptiness.
The support forums for spouses of survivors preaches lowering expectations and way more patience. I think that the big thing here. She is still in her crisis, but I think that a huge difference between mlc and woman in mlc who have had that trauma at such a young age, is there may never be a light at the end of the tunnel with the ability to truly heal the way we rationally understand what healing is...and maybe that just isn't the right term. There are other bugaboo issues that I need to figure out how to broach.
I need to work on better boundaries, that is for sure. I need to reevaluate my gal / family activities. I need to figure out how to find a substitute for genuine intimacy / closeness / being wanted without crossing those lines of integrity.
Jeeze, i feel like i am starting from scratch. Maybe I am just exhausted...it has happened to me before, and that turned into a year of depression. I don't like that prospect. Maybe I am trying to convince myself that it just might not be worth it anymore...if the cost has been and will continue to be too high.
Zephyr, my take on what you posted on Ancaire about the present moment is this. The past is a thought. The future is anticipated but just a thought. All we have is now. Be well, in the present moment.
Thanks mutatio, I really appreciate your thoughts on this.
My new reality, over the last 4-5 months has been being able to squench the Geer of the unknown and live for today. I ever thought about not dwelling into the past, which holds us back just as much as the fear of the future.
I just read this and liked it Zephyr, you may like it too.
Wise man say, "You don't realize how much your hair weighs until you shave it all off. You don't realize how much your fears weigh until you release them."
The fear of the unknown and future have plagued me for a long time and I've spent a good deal of my ic sessions figuring out why.
I can say that it has helped embracing today and not focusing so much on the future, preparing my mind for the very real possibility that I may be the one to eventually give up on my marriage.
I see a lot of myself in your wife's past behaviors. Our situations are different because you didn't dive off the deep end like my H, and become an abusive butt-head. I truly realize that until H comes to his senses and apologizes for his treatment of me, I'm better off with complete NC/total darkness.
In my self-reflection, though, as I'm striving to learn all I can about myself so that I can fix what needs fixing and grow into the best person I can be, I see so clearly my own actions and behaviors that led to the demise of my M. I understand I am in no way responsible for H' s choices. I am responsible for his getting to a point that there was a choice. Does that make sense? I accept responsibility for me and my actions. I acknowledge I helped put H in a bad position. I'm NOT responsible for his choice of behaviors.
I'm attempting to get to the point..LOL
My behaviors are on me. I want to fix them. I'd like H to someday see that I heard what he said, took his complaints to heart, and worked on it. How can that happen if we're totally NC? We share adult children, but until the day he apologizes for treating me so cruelly, I plan to not speak to him...ever.
You may say it's too early for me to worry about it. Divorce is inevitable at this point. I'm as fine with that as I can be since he's out actively bedding OW. Is there redemption possible? Does a man completely stop loving? Is he so hurt by her apparent apathy that his heart turns cold? I just want him to know how deeply sorry I am for not having been what he needed me to be. I could have done more, Z...and I didn't.
Maybe I just need to accept that there is no real way to tell. I'm trying to look into the future, aren't I? What can you males tell me, from your point of view, what can I do to gain forgiveness? I didn't cheat or lie...I just withdrew to the point of not being there at all. H says I really hurt him. There's probably truth in that statement...No happily married person jumps into MLC.
I'm shaking my head at myself right now. Clearly, I still deeply love my H. He is toxic to me at the moment. NC is the best way to proceed. I would cut off my arm to save him. I'm so worried about the cost to his soul his awful choices are causing. (And I hear the chorus...let him go)
So, Z...since I see so much of myself in your wife, what happened that changed the dynamic? Do you have advice for me with that type of behavior in mind? I've given you tons of questions here, you and the other guys...but it's so helpful to get a male perspective.
If you need a female point if view, I'm the girl for you! Thanks so much for your advice and support on my thread.
Zephyr, slow down. You said "she is still in her crisis". That, right there, is the biggest challenge you face right now. DBing is exhausting, isn't it? All this bending, swaying, accommodating, for years and years. Do you want to get to the final stage of marriage? The happier ever after? If you get through this trial, you've got it made!
In what ways do you think CSA has impacted your relationship? I know in mine, I wanted to be intimate less and less over the years. It wasn't because I didn't enjoy it...I've been giving this a lot of thought. It's probably the only thread I will ever discuss the topic on, too. It's almost like we come to view sex as a kind of barter-system, unconsciously. Not a tit-for-tat, exactly...but similar.
I remember, when H and I were in our early years together, feeling extremely sick to my stomach after ML and sobbing. I had no idea why...but the emotion involved was too much to handle. Later, I got more and more indifferent. I didn't mind if we did, but never initiated. I could go weeks at a time without, and it didn't bother me at all. I resented H whining and complaining about how he wanted more sex. I felt pressured and bitter. The word "bitter" is an interesting choice. My H never made me feel angry and helpless in this area...so the bitterness must come from farther back. I need to dig deeper here, find the source, and forgive.
So...CSA is not impossible to overcome. Acknowledging that it ever happened is HUGE. Most of us bury it deeply. We might mention it once to people we trust, but we never want to speak of it again. However, never dealing with it is a colossal mistake. Does your W see an IC? I would ever so casually ask if she's ever gone over healing from childhood issues in her sessions.
I know she can move past it, because I'm choosing to do so. It'll likely be a long time before I'm ever able to...um...Be with H again, but I will dig this thorn out of my soul. I was a little kid. I didn't do anything wrong. I'll do what I need to forgive, and let it go.
If your W never addresses it, and refuses to let the little girl inside her heal...that could be bad. COULD be. I firmly believe we need to love the wounded child inside most of us. Love, support, and help them forgive. Some people never do this though, and they're just fine.
Z, you can use my story as a jumping point if you want (if the time is ever right.) Ask her what she identifies with and how she feels about my beliefs. Encourage her to talk to an IC about it, or get some self-help books on the subject. Patience and letting HER work on it are key. Remember, we DO NOT LIKE, in fact WE DETEST, discussing the subject.
This got kind of long...I was thinking as I went. Let me know if you have questions, and I'll do my best to help.
