less confused newbie (7)

[Fogg]

dday, sorry your having a rough day. I understand that feeling of just wanting things to move or progress. Something, anything to be done with this misery, be it attempting to reconcile or just have the D final. I know I've had similar posts like this and thoughts, still do at times.

The response that would piss me off, and I'm sure it will you also is that you are the one that decides if you have dropped the rope or not. That the only person who is keeping you stuck in this emotional misery is you, not her. That you have to let go and live your life. I cant express enough how much I hate these comments, that and detach, detach, detach. I reject some of the claims about these above comments but there's truth to them also.

If she D's you or not the only thing that would really change is setting some of your finances free. Are you really ready for a new relationship? I don't know about myself anymore, maybe I am, maybe I'm not. I don't think I would know until I got in one, so for now its mostly out of my mind since I'm still M'ed. I know some part of me wants it just to feel better, to feel not so alone, to have my emotional needs met for once by someone who cares for me and the coffe would be amazing. Coffee.......its been nearly a year now since I had a sip..........
Oh yeah, back to the subject

I can relate to how you're feeling, I wish I could give you an answer that will satisfy your mind and emotions but I know from experience it wont fully. What keeps me going is the idea that its the LBS that has the power in determining what happens in the outcome. I've also learned the longer I stay on this path the more I learn about myself and who I am, the more I learn about the issues that led up to my M failing. The things that are gold and will only lead to me succeeding in the future. I feel my W has things to learn about herself and the only way she will do it is by taking this horrible path and learn by trial and error what was making her unhappy, and learn who she really is.

My W hasn't filed for D either yet, it seems to be dragging out with no end in sight. I could bring it up like you want to do and have her choose now. I could, but then I ask myself what would really change. Maybe I can date? I think that's it really. Everything else that I should be doing I can do D'ed or in this separation. I guess its possible the things I should be doing would be easier if I was D'ed also, then I wouldn't be stuck in everything shes doing, or maybe I would still. I'm mostly just babbling now so I have no clue if this is even helping or not, so many questions to consider.

Ill just leave this section from the book to consider since you still have hope it can work out with W(I think most of us still do).

"One of the worst parts about how long it takes for your spouse to work her way through existential dilemma-and how rocky the road will be-is that you will feel that your life has been put on hold. You will feel angry and hurt that you have to wait for her to realize something that she should have known from the start-that your marriage is worth saving."

"Think about the most challenging things you've ever done in your life in regard to being patient. Not multiple that by a million."

I always question if this "limbo" is what the LBS has to work through to get to what we want in the end. If we can tough it out instead of throwing in the towel, maybe what we want is there for us to take. Sure, if they push the D and walk away theres nothing we can do about it. I just wonder how much success there is in sticking it out and keeping the door cracked, how long we could last vs. how long it might take them to work out their issues. I don't know.

Stay strong buddy, your not alone. We all have these thoughts, urges and conflict inside us on what to do. No one can make the decision for us or tell us what will happen.

[PigPen]

Good for you for dumping all of that out dday. That's the beauty of this place, you can vent and vent and scream and yell and do all the things that people who aren't DB'ing to guarantee that their M's are going to continue to fall apart.

Acknowledge your feelings, take a deep breath, take another one, then commit to let things go for the night. You don't have to make any decisions tonight, especially if you're upset.

And yea, you have every right to be upset and feel how you do. We won't question that here, all we'll ask you to do is sit on doing "anything" until you're in a better place.

Be strong my friend. Today is just one more day on your journey. It's a tough one, but it's just one.

Man hug,

PP

[dday]

I know the state of limbo that in feel I am in. I can only imagine what my boys are going through. They ask me constantly about coming home, and tell me that they don't talk to her about it at all.

If the holidays don't make her wake up to what she has done, and she ignores the boys when they try and talk to her, then I have little to be hopeful for. Seeing her erase me from the famiky pics bothers me. The pics of me and my sis on the fridge were gone too. I'm still paying the mortgage, yet to her I am not part of the family.

It's going to be very hard to not have a talk, and I am not sure that I will resist it. We all need some sort of resolution here. So, I think I will have to talk to her. I meet with my friend the priest/counselor tomorrow. See what he thinks too. Maybe he can help me figure out how to say things, that will be less harmful.

I feel that I am losing my self respect by not saying anything about what she is doing to us all. I have let her off the hook for far too long with the boys. If this is what she still wants, then it's time she owned it with them. I feel that I have done a lot over the last year to try and save my M and keep my family together. It's on her now.

[Vapo]

Dude,

you are waaaaaaaaaaaaay to early in to throw in the towel. I hear you, I really do, but this is a marathon, not a sprint. You are only a couple of months in this and it is going to take time to turn the tide (if ever). You have to focus on you, work on you and detach. We all said that doing things for you wife will get you squat and that's what you are getting. In her eyes and twisted logic, things are actually better now, she got BD off her chest and she can live it to the fullest now. Of course her logic is flawed, but she does not see it.

IMO being a friend to the W is wrong, because she has you on standby just in case her other plans fall through.

You want a friend or a wife?

[Azzork]

Ok, I have a real urge to do something.
Like....WHAT....exactly?

I am tired of this sitch.
Fair.

I am tired of being lonely.
Also fair. Whats your alternative?

I am tired of letting her have her way all the time.
Why are you letting her have her way? She asked you to spend an hour and a half driving. Why did you agree to it? Honestly. Why?

I am tired of her asking me to do things for the boys, knowing full well that I won't deny them anything if I can help it.
Really? I cant imagine THIS is why you agreed to drive them to her place after church...

I have a feeling of being used. For money. For someone to talk to.
Yeah. I imagine you are. A WW is going to use every trick possible to get what she wants from the LBH.

For someone to help her out when she gets into a scheduling conflict. I am still paying half the mortgage.
So, what kind of schedule have you guys agreed to? Is there something in writing? How often do you accommodate her?How often do you tell her you cant do something?


Here I am, thinking we are working towards something better.
This. This right here. Read this again.

You (dday) thought she (dday's W) was working on your M.

Has she EVER indicated anything to suggest she is thinking of you as anything more than a person to turn to when she needs something?


Then I see today that our family pics are gone. S6 tried to open up to W and she ignores him. S6 has told me that he opens up to me, and not W. She asked about his bday party, just to see if I would help her out with driving and money. Who is this person that looks like my W? Ignoring her own kids now?
Do you think it would be better to say "I dont love your dad anymore. We are splitting."? Lets assume she ISNT sure what she wants. What exactly do you think would be best?

I was just informed by my landlord (small town) that my W coworkers are talking about how self absorbed she has become, and how she is planning on her parents to help her financially.
Sounds about right...

Then she sends a text asking if I have thought about Thanksgiving. I won't see s6 on his bday, due to it being her day. Thanksgiving is mine, and I am sure she wants it.
Again, whats the schedule? Are you going to give her Christmas too?

I have had enough, I guess that's what I am getting at. I want to ask when this will be final. I don't want to keep doing this. (I know detach, I have some...not enough)
Its not really about detaching, necessarily.
What DO you want? What is your plan to get it?

Lets say your goal is to buy a car. You know its likely going to take 18 months to save up enough money given your cash flow. On day 71, your air conditioner breaks, so you have to spend "car" money to fix it. Then on day 96, you need a new refrigerator. Based on this, do you blow all of the money youve already saved?

I have spent the last 10 months trying to fix us. I have made improvements, in every aspect that I can think of. I think we are improving, and it turns out to be crumbs.
Right. Expectations.......

Tired of wasting my time and energy. I want a relationship with someone who values me.
Your W does not value you as a H right now.
Do you want to be with her?

I don't want my kids to go through the holidays like this.
You can SAY it's the kids all you want. Im not buying it. YOU dont want to go through the holidays like this.

I know that there is nothing I can do, it's all on her. But, I am ready to sit down and have a heart to heart with her.
OK. To say what? If you say divorce or get back together, I dont think youre going to like the result...

She needs to quit leading the kids and myself on, if she still wants D. it has been past the 60 day waiting period, and still no court date. I will not be her supplemental income to get her through the winter heat bills.
So how do you separate the financials? You shouldnt be paying for her lifestyle if you arent in her life.

If we aren't working on us, I want set free. I want the band aid ripped off, so I can really heal.
It isnt HER thats keeping it on. It's YOU. SHE FILED FOR DIVORCE. How is that NOT ripping off the bandaid?

I am out of patience. If this is truly what she wants, let's get it over with.
Is it what you want?

I am ready to start rebuilding my life. One way or the other. I have told myself that I won't date until it's final.
What does "rebuilding your life" have to do with dating?

I don't think W is going to realize and feel the loss until D is final. I will still feel in limbo until then also. Today, I want to drop the rope.
Are you equating the legal status change to "divorced" with dropping the rope?What wiull be different once that change is made? How does it free you from your emotional bonds?

I am tired of this. Ready to close this chapter and see what the next will bring
So start writing.......

[dday]

Az, thanks for the reply. What I and the boys want obviously doesn't matter to W. Dropping the boys off after church was only an extra 5 minutes from my rental, but saved her 1.5 hours driving. We are supposed to do the kid swap there. I felt like W was reconsidering, due to some of her actions. Opening up to me, sitting with me (after we had the talk of only sit with me if we are working on us). Yes, I guess I have hope up until it's final.

Money: I pay support and half the mortgage, until D is final. Then, no more mortgage and she has to buy me out.

Kids: I would do anything for them that I can. Easy to manipulate me there. How long is it ok to lead them on? I hear it every time I see them and they have told me that the don't talk to W about it. I have seen why, she blows them off.

Holidays: we are supposed to split them, somehow. If we can't agree it goes by some child support guideline book that is an inch thick.

I have set some plans. I am designing a house to build. I have been looking at newer vehicles. I want to spend time with someone who enjoys being with me and I have fun with. W or someone new.

To me, once it is over... it's over. I have tried to make her happy from BD to S. Then from S to her filing, I was trying to work on myself, but not living for myself at all. Since I have gotten my own place, I have been gal. I have a few plans made with family and friends coming up.

If she is done, why not just be done. Why lead me on. Why lead the kids on. I'm enabling her, I am afraid. She hasn't really faced any kind of consequences. I have. Kids do. Not her, she's sitting pretty with everything we had built together, and I'm not in the picture. Literally now.

So, what are my options. Suck it up and let her keep doing this. Ask her on a date. Pull back, way back. Ask if this is what she still wants. ?

[Thornton]

Hey Buddy,

Might I suggest an alternative to having "the talk"?

Instead of asking for a verdict, how about switching tactics a little bit?

How about be less available? Going dim? Don't be her taxi as much. Help out sometimes, but let her start to wonder about you when you say "Sorry W, I can't get the gets tomorrow. I have plans (and actually have plans)".

She might be settling into a nice routine where she gets to do as she pleases and has you in her hip pocket to call on when she needs some help.

If you are resolute in trying something new, go dim (and don't be a jerk about it). Just start to act as if you are moving on.

Start doing things that are exciting and push your comfort zone. I'm sure your kids will tell your w about them. Go skydiving, or take scuba lessons. Or salsa dancing lessons. Or anything that's out of character for you. Create some excitement in your life. Start living like James Bond! Don't share any of this with W. Your kids will pick up on it and will start talking to w about how cool their father is.

You are emotional right now, understandably. But reacting from emotion is the WORST time to have a talk with W.

You need to act completely UNFAZED by not having your pictures up in the house. Why? Because that's what James Bond would do!

[mutatio]

"If she is done, why not just be done. Why lead me on."

"Money: I pay support and half the mortgage, until D is final. Then, no more mortgage and she has to buy me out."

Seems pretty obvious, doing nothing helps her out financially.
Could she think of you as a cash cow and that she is going to milk you for all your worth?

I am not saying she is doing this but it is a possibility.

[Azzork]

Az, thanks for the reply. What I and the boys want obviously doesn't matter to W. Dropping the boys off after church was only an extra 5 minutes from my rental, but saved her 1.5 hours driving. We are supposed to do the kid swap there.
It doesnt necessarily matter whats best for you. You could have made plans after church in the other direction. Its still an hour and a half worth of driving that you did for her.

I felt like W was reconsidering, due to some of her actions. Opening up to me, sitting with me (after we had the talk of only sit with me if we are working on us). Yes, I guess I have hope up until it's final.
Understandable. But you were still proceeding with all kinds of expectations. And hen one wasnt met, it put you into a tailspin.

Money: I pay support and half the mortgage, until D is final. Then, no more mortgage and she has to buy me out.
Well, then this is what you agreed to? Not much you can do except force the D through then, right? Why did you agree to that?

Kids: I would do anything for them that I can. Easy to manipulate me there. How long is it ok to lead them on? I hear it every time I see them and they have told me that the don't talk to W about it. I have seen why, she blows them off.
Look, theres a difference between doing things for the kids and doing things "for the kids". The kid needs to go to the doctor's or ants to go to some special thing, fine. You do it. If it's to go out for dinner or to watch them for a couple hours, then it's time to stay out of it. Look, Id like to have my kids as much as possible. But if it comes to taking them for mundane activities to help my wife or doing some sweet GAL thing for me, Im taking my own time. And I dont think thats selfish in the slightest.

Holidays: we are supposed to split them, somehow. If we can't agree it goes by some child support guideline book that is an inch thick.
Better figure it out! Otherwise, youre going to without. Why dont you be proactive and propose something?

I have set some plans. I am designing a house to build. I have been looking at newer vehicles. I want to spend time with someone who enjoys being with me and I have fun with. W or someone new.

To me, once it is over... it's over. I have tried to make her happy from BD to S. Then from S to her filing, I was trying to work on myself, but not living for myself at all. Since I have gotten my own place, I have been gal. I have a few plans made with family and friends coming up.

If she is done, why not just be done.
Why would she do that?

Why lead me on.
What if she realizes that she DOESNT want to be alone but youve found something else?

Why lead the kids on. I'm enabling her, I am afraid. She hasn't really faced any kind of consequences. I have. Kids do. Not her, she's sitting pretty with everything we had built together, and I'm not in the picture. Literally now.
Heres a question Ive seen asked many times.

Does your wife have ANY fear of losing you?


So, what are my options. Suck it up and let her keep doing this. Ask her on a date. Pull back, way back. Ask if this is what she still wants. ?
What is the downside to pulling back?

[dday]

Mutatio, those are my fears exactly.

Thornton & Az, I will give pulling back another shot. And GAL too. I am going to a Notre Dame game with my BIL this weekend. Never been and it should be exciting. A friend in Washington DC invited me to come out for a weekend soon and do some winter charter fishing and just hang out. I am going to do my best to get that accomplished too.

Az, can you elaborate here? I'm not getting what you are saying, I guess:
Why lead me on.
What if she realizes that she DOESNT want to be alone but youve found something else?



Fear of losing me? I doubt it. I guess that is one reason I want to have the talk. Thanks for showing me a different way of accomplishing that.