I have basically taken a step forward as if this marriage is going to work.
We talk a lot now about everything (except us). She gets a lot of the topics off of facebook. When she giggles at something I ask 'what's funny' type of things. Conversation starters is how I view them
Funny thing is she has almost been trying to see through or find holes in my positivity. A couple of times she has asked me why, when I have said that is awesome or great or what not.
One on particular...we were lying in bed the other night and I asked...is that s13 snoring, it was an odd sound. She said she thought so. I said that is great. She asked why is THAT great. I just said, not sure but I feel it is. Then told her sometimes I lay awake in bed listening to a chorus of the three of you guys snoring almost in harmony, and wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. She giggled and fell asleep. It was almost heaven when she reached out and held my arm while she fell asleep.
I know there is a long way to go. I am not getting my hopes amped up like in the padt, even keEl this time. I know there are going to be bumps and pitfalls I know that the 'physical' strain of workinking on things will be there.
We are going to Michigan this weekend as a family, next weekend we have Darien Rucker tickets out of town as a couple and lots of stuff between...busy busy busy.
Hi Zephyr - sounds like things are moving forward, baby steps.
I so envy you sharing the same bed as W and miss even the limited physical contact I had with W. The nearest I've got in the last 6 weeks is tenderly touching her black eye after she bashed herself in the face!
Our most tender moments are when one of the boys does something funny/silly and W and I look at each other, with a smile/laugh/knowing look - each knowing that is OUR boy, someone we will share forever.
Good Luck with your nights out and weekend away
Last edited by isittoolate; 11/05/1512:41 PM.
Me49 W45 T15 M13 S11 S8 BD 11/15/11 & 3/27/12 Moved out 4/9/12 Moved back 4/23/12 W working on US 5/20/12 Now Piecing! May-Oct14 drifting Dec 14 W agrees to more QT BD Oct15 ILYBINILWY W filed 1/25/16
That is a great belief to be able to have. It will shape your actions,behaviours and results. Since our holiday I have let my W's actions dictate my belief that it will end and this has affected me and I unconsciously may have headed in that direction. I still have no reason for high hopes but I am regaining my confidence and positivity.
Z, if my W reached out and placed a hand on me I would not sleep.It would be too huge a moment. I am a little jealous, but I am happy for you.
The next question is for me though may help you see the different place you are at now. Can you outline a little about how things were during your dark years when W didn't want anything to do with you? If you prefer not dwell on the past,i can understand that, but as I said maybe it will enhance the progress in your mind.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Wife was very cold, withdrawn, and closed off. when I spoke all I got from her was eye rolls and dismissiveness.
When I tried to touch her, I got revulsion from her. She cringed and used any excuse for me to stop (some of my favorites were: I smelled funny, my gentle touch hurt her, my scratchy beard (2-day stubble)) - well you get it.
It seamed like nothing I did was good enough. no matter how hard I tried, it wasn't something she wanted, she refused acts of service constantly from me.
She avoided any sort of activity that you could possibly consider a date (tons of excuses, usually wanted to 'save money' or didn't want to bother anyone for a sitter). Also she used the 'didn't want to give me the wrong idea' about activities together.
Sex was so sparce, at best. When it did happen it was horrible. no fore-play, no kissing, no Connection AT ALL. she even cried once when she tried. That set off the longest dry spell between us...that the only time we tried in about 14 months. It sort of destroyed my confidence and self-esteem. When it did happen it was usually liquor induced). As for esteem, it has taken a long time for me to get that back (and in bed, still not there because of lack of real practice still). We have had sex 10 times since beginning of feb (not a complaint really, just not a ton of practice to get back to a fully functioning man if you get my drift).
Biggest issue was that wife was just not engaged in our family, that included the interaction with the kids and the work around the house. She didn't cook or clean or be helpful. She missed tons of the kids activities for her being withdrawn. (now I will give her some slack here because for 30 months she went back to school so a lot of that was due to full time job and then school - but not all of it). But there were tons of times I would say, I want to take the kids here or there and she just didn't go with, like weekends away or to museums or what-evers.
There were so many other things that were off-putting, like telling people that she liked the idea of an irish divorce (living together as a family but separate rooms, talking to guys in a group about sexual stuff - like if we were kids in college or something). There were times she even stayed in the guest bedroom (due to not being able to sleep).
She missed and ran away from things like holiday gifts and no sort of recognition of anniversary or valentines or my birthdays. She would really not 'like' any of the gifts I did get her.
I think I've said it before, I would say for almost 12-18 months, she would have been considered Wayward by all that I have read here. her behaviors and space-creating outbursts towards me were so UUGH. Things FEEL different now and there is certainly none of those behaviors now.
Lets be honest I don't know why I stayed or why she didn't leave. Maybe I was too afraid. Maybe I just wanted my kids and used that as a reason. maybe she was cake-eating because of great provider and father. otherwise, I was a miserable excuse for a man back then, and it showed with her lack of respect and compassion for me.
To be honest, I am not even sure if she didn't have a full blown affair during that time that could have ended around the end of last year (by the swing in attitude - IDK, and honestly if she came out and told me tomorrow, I would not be the least bit surprised by it, I was so head in the sand back then, I wouldn't have seen it in front of my eyes). the trips, the lack of transparency and communication...could be that it did happen. It would also explain so much of her attitude towards things like counseling now or her unwillingness to discuss herself.
On that note, there was a conversation we had a few months ago, where it told her that I felt like there was something between us that I could not put a finger on (at the time I thought it was the friendship). she was silent for it felt like an hour but was 5 minutes where she contemplated what to say next...could have been anything, but maybe that is what it was, WHO KNOWS). I cannot force my wife to be open with me. I can only hope that she will be more and more open as days pass.
Hope that is enough, I don't mind too much going back. it actually gives me some more hope for a better future, we are definitely in a better place than we were a year ago, and likely just about as good if not better friends than anytime in the last decade. SO THERE IS HOPE FOR THE FUTURE for me and for you guys. I will say, you are all WAAAAY better prepared for this $hit than I ever was back then...I didn't find this site until about 3+ years after the first "I'm not happy" I got from her way back when and I wandered around aimlessly as a result.
Ugh. I see a lot of my own behaviors to my H in this post. I suffer from depressive disorder, and there was a long period of time I withdrew from everything. I realize now how deeply I hurt him. I've been working hard to learn how to manage my mental health, so that I never miss out on my own life again.
To see some of the same behaviors from another H' s point of view hurts...but it also helps show me a roadmap to redemption.
Thought it might help you see how far you have come. Thanks for being honest and open.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Yes it helped. Firstly it helped me understand further your situation. I may have comments on that later, but for now I am glad you appreciate the ddifference.
As for me, I guess it helped too. It does give hope that progress is possible. It also gives food for thought. It took me back through my last few years.Boy would I do so much different now, if I could go back a few years.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I have a few thoughts that I am not sure how to broach.
Since I do not have Divorce Busting Book (ONLY DR), I believe I read somewhere that in the book, MWD says something to the effect that if the WAW/MLC spouse is in fact a person who was victim in Childhood Sexual Abuse, that the Divorce Busting concept will not work on the marriage.
Is that true? From reading so much about CSA it appears that nothing I will ever do on my side will help save our marriage. It must come from her and still, no guarantees (sound familiar).
Now I am not suggesting that I am going to stop hoping and fighting for my marriage, I have not come to that conclusion yet. Nor do I think that the principals of DB have not been helpful to me (BECAUSE THEY HAVE - 180's to be a better person, GAL to work on my own needs, Detachment to see things as they are and not be affected by her actions any longer, etc, Learning about what true love is). They were all awesome and have changed my life, and these techniques are precisely what I need to be able to live through the upcoming hell of a woman working through the ordeal of facing her demons from such a phucking disgusting event in her life 30 years ago - or to be able to leave if I need to.
My IC told me some months ago, that I was not Co-Dependent the way that I thought. It wasn't until last week that I understood what the hell he was talking about. I have been reading until my eyes have bleed on the subject of CSA. My needs and affection that I was showing my wife and family were pretty normal. What he meant was that I was only enabling her to not seek help and work on herself for those issues that she has need for. I was allowing myself to be the one who gave and gave to her needs, while she gave little back. Looking now, I understand Love, friendship, compassion and understanding SOOOO much better that I ever did and I am not sure that my wife is even capable of those feelings / behaviors right now. Intimacy, the thing I crave from her, is precisely the thing she cannot share.
I have learned one thing, what happened to my wife is not my fault. I am not a deviant. I did not hurt her that way. I am not her enemy. Does she see it that way, it may very well be.
This journey has taught me something, and that is I will be ok through all of this. What is going to happen down the road, I don't have the foggiest phucking idea. I know that I am not going to just stand still and wait around for things to just get better. From what I read, the likely hood of a marriage, sharing true intimacy with a woman who has gone through CSA, as a mutually beneficial outcome is very slim.
This no longer scares me. I have cried too many tears for one lifetime and I do not want to continue on with the emptiness that way if she doesn't want to move forward in her life. I want to help her, she is the love of my life, but I can't force her to look at her past. I cannot force her to give me the affection and intimacy that I WANT in my life, especially if she is not capable. She has been a taker, a black hole of emotions and genuine love for a long time.
I saw the downfall of our marriage, as me not being a good enough husband, where I was selfish and not satisfactory to her. While I sure did have some issues, I have gone through and cleaned up my messes. I now know that I am a good husband, a great provider, an amazing father and I understand what love means for the first time in my life. I am not responsible for the pain that she has, nor the resentment that she shows me. It has taken me a long time to figure that out and it makes me weep to imagine the hurt that I've allowed myself to feel because of it.
I think that I have the fortitude to handle just about anything that life throws at me. I would walk besides her for the chance of real happiness and love, but I know that she must make that choice for herself. I will be spending a concerted effort for a while to try to figure out how this can happen, and what I will do if she cannot look at her side.
I want to thank all of you for helping me save myself. I want to send you all the gratitude that is possible, I just don't have the words. I don't have the time to express how truly wonderful you kind folks have been to me and really to my family. I will stick around and keep posting on others threads because of the genuine appreciation I have for what you all have done for some many others, I don't know what I can help with but I will try!
Thank You, with all of my heart!!!
Mark
(and I hope that this does not come across as high-horsed, I am just writing my thoughts and trying to be succinct - which I don't do well as you all know )
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