Working on improving Ghost

[Huddy]

I'm not sure you should be in this group at all Ghost. I don't think you have emotionally or physically abused your W. Tread carefully here.

[ATPeace]

Yes I was able to speak to the group mainly to fill them in on my position

The program that I have enrolled on is a domestic violence awareness program to look at changing yourself when I was filling in the enrolment form some of the questions they asked I was like no I could never do this but some of the questions did make me think yes I did do that

I did raise my voice in an aggressive manner
I did throw things about in a tempter
I did storm out the house upset after an argument

I did feal that we did not make love enough and I put pressure on her to do it
more often this was not loving this was inexcusable

She was not body confident even though she has a fantastic figure and I did like to see my wife when we made love I should have accepted her right to not want me to see her naked

I did assume that she would do the bulk of the house work something my father expected from mother

My upbringing saw my father being both physically and emotionally abusive to my mother and I vowed never to be like my father however I have been emotionally abusive i did nag her to make love more often

I was jealous and to some degree was trying to control her

The more I look at myself the more I realise what I have done to her and I do not know if there is anything I can do to make things remotely more right / acceptable how do I even begin to show her how sorry I am for how I have treated her

I thought I was being loving how can she trust me arround our children I would never hurt them but she rightly feels I have been abusive to her emotionally

I want to show her that I can change never let her down again but I would not blame her if she did not give me this oppertunity

[censored]

all I can do is work on me and never make the same mistakes again

[sandi2]

Yes, I remember it, Ghost. It concerns me, b/c you came to this conclusion based on the fact you found a book she was reading that had highlighted parts. You immediately assumed she felt you had been abusive to her. So, if she reads a book that teaches something completely opposite of what you believe.....will you automatically accept that as truth, without question or doubt....simply b/c she read it?

I'm not say you were or weren't abusive, I'll just say it's hard for me to imagine it. After what you've said about her, and after seeing how easily she can persuade you to think and do whatever she wants.....yes, it's pretty hard to see you being her abuser. And now, you are attending a group for abusive men. And all b/c you stumbled across a book she read! I read a lot of books, too. I underline/highlights parts, but that doesn't mean it is referring to my H or even someone I know! Your W could have highlighted it for an entirely different reason.

If you cannot tell us how you abused your W......then wouldn't that make you doubt it? And as for the control issue, do you remember what I said were the 2 main cards a WW uses? (If you didn't read the WW threads, then you wouldn't know.) Here's a hint: One of them is "control". Almost all WW's will accuse the H of trying to control her. So, welcome to the LBH's club!

Now, can you tell us how you controlled her? Will you have to ask her for some examples?

[otw]

Ghost,
It takes courage to admit those things. I read them and I think everyone can be guilty somewhere on that list if not all. we are human. I bet our W can fall into a list very similar to this as well.

your right about what can you do to let her know it will never happen again. Nothing right now. Just never let these things be a part of your life again. It will take a long time for her to see this as she will not want to admit you have changed. Just like I am sure it took a long time for her to feel hopeless with the actions and then BD.

I do think the steps you have gone through are the correct steps, even though people had to keep beating you over the head, it has to happen at your pace. I think you are moving along great. I know that is still not what you want to hear but it is the truth.

I did get a lot out of your last post for myself personally as well. Something to think about when you are feeling down. You expressing yourself is actually helping others. Me included in those people.

[Ancaire]

all I can do is work on me and never make the same mistakes again

Yes. Actions speak so much louder than words, Ghost. As you work on improving yourself and becoming the best version of yourself, you must realize you have no idea what the future holds. I can guarantee, though, W will notice your improvement. It is highly unlikely you can repair the damage now - but Ghost 2.0 will be capable of anything! Learn and apply all you can in order to be ready for a fantastic future. You're on your way, Ghost!

[sandi2]

I did raise my voice in an aggressive manner

Raising one's voice is not abuse.

I did throw things about in a tempter

Tell us about it. How many times did this happen? Did you throw something at her? Were you breaking and smashing things in her presence?

I did storm out the house upset after an argument

This is not abuse.

I did feal that we did not make love enough and I put pressure on her to do it
more often this was not loving this was inexcusable

If this is an example of abuse, then probably every H on this board would need to attend a group for abusive men.

I did like to see my wife when we made love I should have accepted her right to not want me to see her naked

OMG! You are just horrible! The very idea a man would want to see his W's naked body, why I've never heard such!

I did assume that she would do the bulk of the house work something my father expected from mother

Assuming she'd do most of housework is not abuse.

I have been emotionally abusive i did nag her to make love more often

I was jealous and to some degree was trying to control her

Explain.

I thought I was being loving how can she trust me arround our children I would never hurt them but she rightly feels I have been abusive to her emotionally

You are going completely overboard. I think you think counseling!

[Huddy]

You're not abusive Ghost, you're a normal human being who gets annoyed, wants sex and get on each others nerves at time. I'm afraid the group you're going to is for men who like to hit their spouse or belittle them in public. Sex to them would be brutal and unloving; a tool to abuse their woman in to doing what they want them to do. An abuser doesn't provide a house in a comfortable part of south east England, with ponies for their kids and do everything to make their lives happy.

She's manipulating you here, pure and simple. I'm happy to admit that after BD, I looked in to every action that my W did and tried to see if it was me that caused that problem/complaint. After a couple of months, the complaints/problems changed just to keep me on my toes. Yeah, I was being manipulated. You've just got to realise that this is the game she's playing with you. You have to let go, detach and stand tall.

[ATPeace]

Thank you for your posts of support

I admit a lot of what I have felt has come from the fact that I found that she had been reading a book in the minds of controlling and abusive men

In this book she had underlined many statements but the issue I have is I cannot approach this with her easily if at all

She believes that I got her pregnant on purpose with our last child the fact was we were going through a stage of trying to get back together and we were both trying t do more for the other person I was doing m e arround the house and with the children and she was being much more sexual.

My W would rarely if ever initiate making love but during the run up to her getting pregnant with baby four there was a two or three week period where no words of a lie she would come onto me two or three times in a day we used condoms I was always very careful and sex and making love was normally very planned but one or two times in the grips of our passion we did it without a condom and I would pull out. Once I did come inside her and told her that I had she said it will be fine she was due to have her period within a day. She could have gone for the morning after pill but we both agreed that it would probably be ok ...she fell pregnant and is not one to have an abortion she would never do this .

There were many things that she had hi lighted and I cannot remember all of them but some included

Me sulking to get my own way
Interrupting her
Not listening to her point of view
Sarcasm towards her
Distorting what she said
I swore
I would play the victim
I would provoke guilt
During several arguments I would walk out the house in my mind to get some space and to cool down
I would get to close in arguments
Threat to leave (I do not think I ever did this )

Other things I can remember
I would not help a much as I could with the children's breakfast times often I would go of to work early or when I was at home sometimes I would sit in the office play computer games or chose not to help get the kids ready for school or I would play the games and more often than not would realise that the kids were then running late and then help rush about trying to get them ready at the last minute.

I will think of some other things and post again shortly

Please do not replay to this just yet there are some other i things I would like to add

[ATPeace]

Sandi2 I have been to counselling sessions to try the understand where I were I went wrong perhaps I need some more I will look into this

One thing that I feel is very important to mention is that my W as a child was abused by her stepmum to what exact extent I do not fully know I know she was hit and pushed down stairs she was verbally abused and when I met her she was just 15 we started hanging out in a group and then we got close together and by being with me I believe it helped to stop some of the abuse .....what I do know is she has got some strong emotional feelings from what happend to her as a child and she feels that she has gone from being abused as a child to me choosing her so I could continue this abuse ...this is totally untrue and not the case we loved each other quite simple.

One area where I know she feels betrayed is that I would pressure Her into making love I know there was an imbalance between how often I wanted to make love and how often she wanted to and I did nag her keep on about not having made love for a while and at times she would "give in" and say lets just have a quickie or we would do it and I would do my best to make sure she had an orgasam and I believed that even tho she at first did not want it that I had left her feeling happy ...now I realise I left her feeling used. I am sorry if this is too much information .

Now she sees this pressure as me coercing her and sexually assulting her many times during our marriage this is a section that I remember was underlined by her.

I have had clients who raped and sexually coerced their partners repeatedly over the course of the relationship but never once hit them. Sexual coercion or force in a relationship is abuse. studies indicate that those women who were raped by an intermet partner suffer deeper and longer lasting affects than those who are raped by strangers or non intermit acquaintances If you have experienced sexual assault or chronic sexual pressure in your relationship then call the abuse hotline or the rape hotline,even,if you don't feel the term rape applies to what your partner did.

So the above is something she marked out that I had done

Now I DID NOT force her onto the bed push her legs apart and force her into having sex with her saying no ...yes I did try to persuade her to do it more often I would reach over and caress her under the blanket she knew what I wanted ...and at times I did keep asking until she finally gave in but unless she had given me what I saw was the green light then we did not do it. But I did put pressure on her to make love or have sex and I should just have acceptied a No ...I just wanted to feel close to her.

This is one massive example on something that she feels was abuse

[ATPeace]

So last night really could not sleep

The program that I have self enrolled onto I do not think I can come off it easily I feel coming off it could potentially lead to problems further down the line if my wife ever did say I was an abusive husband she could use me coming off the course as not dealing with my problems as I am still caught between a rock and a hard place with no right and no wrong.

I signed some forms at the beginning of the course ....and the last thing I want to happen is that this is used against me as an admission of any guilt

I spoke to my wife last night and she said that she never would us this against me as this would not be fair on our children right now all I can do is hope trust and believe that she keeps her word.

All I know is that with my current state of mind I would agree to pretty much anything and I am very much susceptible to suggestion that I have done wrong and I am willing to take the blame on pretty much anything and everything in the hope that I could save my marriage

Ghost