Wow, mind is blown 9

[asitis]

I understand the urge and the conflict. I'm missing my W a lot the last couple days. Intimacy, her company, the comfort just having her around brought me, the discussions we had. All of it. I've had a concurrent itch to consider dating.

I have a couple thoughts for you to ponder that I keep coming back to:

1) when I really think about sitting down and being with another woman (say browse one of the online dating sites and look at someone who you find very attractive, then do another one), do you get excited or feel a loss because you really want your XF?

2) let's say this person your sister is trying to introduce you to is a wonderful match. Do you think you are ready to make that work, or would it be better to ask sister to hold off on that until you are more ready?

My suspicion is that like me, you will still have too much mourning the loss of the X to make a go of it. It is part of being the sensitive LBS who really would move mountains to make their R work. I'll speak for myself, but I suspect it will resonate: we have gotten in touch with our feelings intimately, recognized the consequences of our choices and actions, and while we are lonely and wish for some comfort and companionship, we recognize that we aren't yet ready to bring our new 2.0 selves and all that we learned to someone else.

Now, if your sis is hooking you up because you and her friend are both in need of a little distraction and fun, and you both know that this is a short-term/FWB type of thing, then that changes the calculus. I doubt sis is introducing you for that reason though.

Also on the wondering whether it can be saved/too much damage has been done: I go back and fourth on this. I think the answer is it can work if you both choose to try. Not jump right back into a full-blown committed restoration of your prior R, but just starting from scratch with the insights you both have gained, the ember of love that remains, and the desire to do it right this time. The question is can you let her know that this and not jumping back in whole-hog is what you are open to, and whether she is willing at some point to consider it. None of us know that, especially not you and her right now.

Patience. Patience. Patience. Keep DBing. Grieve the loss and the pain some more. Process that so that either XF or someone else can come into the picture wo/ the extra baggage of you still having to deal with that. It seems like it has been forever and will be forever, but it hasn't really been that long, and before you know it, you will be dating someone (maybe XF).

Now, that's just my perspective on thinking this through in my own case. You have to decide for yourself. And if it is a mistake, you dust off and learn from it and go on, just like we all have been trying to do. I also know that it is d*mned hard to do at times. D*mned hard. The last several days have reminded me of this in a big way.

Good luck.

[Uphill]

Honestly, I have no idea? Earlier on in this circus I call life, I would have definatly jumped at any oppourtunity with XF! If she were to call right now, I would definatly need to think about it for a while and see through the reasons for it.

My take on it all at this point (definatly some mind reading involved but no other way to process this) I think if XF ever had a change of heart, she would do and say all the right things to try to show me how much she wants to be with me. Then after settled back in, things would fall right back into our old R. Same habits, same cycles... She would over pursue and push me into distancing. Then yell because I'm distant. I would try to get "closer" and she push me back again?

Looking back, that is how we have been for 6 or 7 years. I would pull back because she would be "clingy". Call 5-10 times a day while I was trying to get work done. Then wonder why I was an hour late getting home. Well I had the same amount of work no matter how many times my phone rings. It was a cycle that repeated time and time again. Eventually she just gave up. Started distancing herself and I never pursued. I didn't notice until it was too late and she "was done".

Anyways, I'm rambling but I think I answered your question the best I could without guessing too much.

[asitis]

Honestly, I have no idea? Earlier on in this circus I call life, I would have definatly jumped at any oppourtunity with XF! If she were to call right now, I would definatly need to think about it for a while and see through the reasons for it.

My take on it all at this point (definatly some mind reading involved but no other way to process this) I think if XF ever had a change of heart, she would do and say all the right things to try to show me how much she wants to be with me. Then after settled back in, things would fall right back into our old R. Same habits, same cycles... She would over pursue and push me into distancing. Then yell because I'm distant. I would try to get "closer" and she push me back again?

And that is why just getting back together is not an option. It is to slowly start being friends and then dating again. Both people acknowledging the roles they played to create dysfunctional dynamics, and a commitment to work to create new dynamics. If either of you is not willing to slow it down and do this, then you are likely right on the outcome.

So, if she approaches, go very slow. You will need to live apart as independent people building independent lives while you see if you can knit an R together. You will likely want to do some couples counseling at some point when things start to look more serious to work on your dynamics and the transition to something more long-term and things like co-habitation. That is down the road. So, don't look at it as we will repeat the same dynamics. You at least are aware of most of these, and will not let you go down that road. Starting over (it won't be a true new romance, but give it as much of that as possible) is the chance to change the dance. It will need both of you to do this, but much of that can come from you and work. She will learn new dynamics just by reacting to the different ways you respond to her. All I'm trying to say is that don't predict it will be a failure before you try.

Now when you move ahead with dating is another question. And when you decide to close the door on XF is still another. Just saying.

[Uphill]

As, it sounds like you and I are about on the same page, who, what, where, when, how will we know it's the time? The truth is neither one of us know! A lot of what you said above does resonate with what I am struggling with also.

I doubt also that my sister is thinking a fling. She wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't somebody she genuinely thinks would make me a good companion. She knows how much I have been through already and wouldnt set me up to end up liking somebody that isn't looking for that.

I'm going to say something that nobody but my sister has ever heard. There was a night in febuary, my phone just wouldn't stop ringing. It was sis, over and over. I finally answered it and she immediately asked what was wrong. I lost it. Nobody in this world knew what I was about to do. She sensed it. She talked to me until she got to my house and personally took the pistol from my hand. I don't know how to ever repay her for that... I felt like my life was over, but I was wrong. It was just that life as I knew it was gone.

I had lost my uncle. My best friends home burned down (they made it out but it brought out some old skeletons from my closet. Lost 11 friends in a fire back in high school. A party I was supposed to be at). Then I lost my family. All within 3 months. It was tough!

I spent countless nights, hearing about suicide after suicide. Thinking to myself how could it ever be that bad? Why take the easy way out? Why transfer the pain to your family? Well I found out, I almost because a statistic.

[JellyB]

Hi Uphill,

I'm sorry I don't know you sitch very well and you don't know me. But I wanted to acknowledge your brave post, a statement of your past hopelessness and overwhelm. I have a similar story of my own and I know that it takes some time to tell it.

I had alot of shame about it for many years. I am not saying that you do. Thank you for trusting us with your story. And thank you for blessing us with your continued presence here on the planet, you are a blessing for your son and for those who are going to benefit from your life's journey.

JellyB XXX

[asitis]

As, it sounds like you and I are about on the same page, who, what, where, when, how will we know it's the time? The truth is neither one of us know! A lot of what you said above does resonate with what I am struggling with also.

I doubt also that my sister is thinking a fling. She wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't somebody she genuinely thinks would make me a good companion. She knows how much I have been through already and wouldnt set me up to end up liking somebody that isn't looking for that.

I'm going to say something that nobody but my sister has ever heard. There was a night in febuary, my phone just wouldn't stop ringing. It was sis, over and over. I finally answered it and she immediately asked what was wrong. I lost it. Nobody in this world knew what I was about to do. She sensed it. She talked to me until she got to my house and personally took the pistol from my hand. I don't know how to ever repay her for that... I felt like my life was over, but I was wrong. It was just that life as I knew it was gone.

I had lost my uncle. My best friends home burned down (they made it out but it brought out some old skeletons from my closet. Lost 11 friends in a fire back in high school. A party I was supposed to be at). Then I lost my family. All within 3 months. It was tough!

I spent countless nights, hearing about suicide after suicide. Thinking to myself how could it ever be that bad? Why take the easy way out? Why transfer the pain to your family? Well I found out, I almost because a statistic.

That was very powerful and I appreciate you sharing it. I think you have an answer to your question of how you ever repay your sister though. You are doing that already. You have dug yourself out of that pit and are showing that same courage that disclosing this took to look inside and take responsibility for you. I'd bet bit money that she is very proud of what you are accomplishing and feels really good about being able to give you that chance.

You have a very brave and wonderful sister!

And, we are in a similar sitch in terms of the kinds of questions we are facing. Following along with your threads over the past several months has made it pretty clear to me that you have some similar sensibilities, and that was why I offered up my own struggles with this questions. I figured it would resonate fairly closely.

[Uphill]

Thank you jelly and as! While I wrote that, I kept it together. Since then I've honestly been a mess. Thinking back to what if she wouldn't have called.... All she kept telling me was that I am the only thing S4 has.

I didn't mean to get all emotional and off track there but my point was that my sister has my back. She only wants what is best for me and S4 and I have a hard time thinking she would steer me wrong.

[Uphill]

It just makes me question what I am even thinking? A person pushed me that far and the first thing I do is google how to save the relationship? Well not first thing but after I saw what came natural wasn't working.

[Dawgs]

Uphill, I have just started reading your threads so please excuse me for not knowing as much as others. First I want to say that you are doing awesome!

I saw this on the last page and if you don't mind, thought I would leave a comment on it:

So, don't look at it as we will repeat the same dynamics. You at least are aware of most of these, and will not let you go down that road. Starting over (it won't be a true new romance, but give it as much of that as possible) is the chance to change the dance.

If you two can begin that dance again, you will be given a beautiful gift. The old relationship is dead and gone and no matter how much the two you try, there will never be any going back to the way it was...its impossible. However, a new, stronger, and better one can arise out of the old ashes. Friendship and love is the foundation of it all - rebuild that and the door will open.

As for dating someone else, I guess it really depends on you. In my case, as long as I am working on or trying, or whatever, then I personally wouldn't do it. That will only come when the door is closed. But that's just me...

[asitis]

She didn't push you to that (she may have triggered it, but it was your issues that got you there - not meaning to sound harsh here - and you've done enough work on yourself to recognize this and are brave enough to acknowledge it to yourself at least). You don't know if you actually would have gone through with it - of course we're glad you didn't get to test that. And you are not that Uphill anymore. I understand the fear of putting yourself back into a relationship that got you to where you were not that long ago. Fear is a good thing at times. Fear will motivate you to go very slow, get the help you need, and go in with your eyes wide open. That path to that deep, deep hole is not available to the you you have become.

And you don't know whether or not you will get the chance to patch things up with XF, so don't dwell on it. You do know that for S4's sake you want to work on that R, even if it is just to be good co-parents. Your DBing will help with that. The question then is, do you feel ready to dip your toe in the water with someone else? Do you feel like you've dealt with enough of your issues to make a go of it and be healthy?

I hope you read this all in the caring spirit with which it was intended. The internet lacks the body language and voice tone cues that convey so much of the message. I respect and admire you for all you've done, and this additional disclosure only increases that. You are a good man, and I'm confident (for what my opinion is worth) that you will continue to make thoughtful and sound choices with regard to yourself, your R with your XF, your S, and any new Rs. I wish I could reach across the internets to give you a warm man hug and be there to listen.