I mentioned the terrible behavior at the dinner table.
I actually did speak to W about this the very next night. In a strong and direct tone I said that we were both out of line to speak like that in front of kids; and asked that we not do that again. W agreed.
I did not state a boundary but could it be, "I will not talk of MR issues in front of kids. If you (W) talk of MR issues in sarcastic tone I will remove myself and kids from your presence until you calm down." As long as I can remember what I said I will do.. this should be fairly easy for me to follow through with and don't see why she would challenge this one.
[quote] Third, this is not to be used as a controlling tool. It is to protect yourself from her bad treatment of you.
Stepping away from boundaries for a moment.
Honestly, for the most part wife does not treat me bad. She is fair (I will use the term friendly here). She says she responses to things I do (ie. still holds resentment for me not being there for her in the MR.. anger for me blogging.. the blog is a story in itself.. but I did it when the bomb dropped).
I have seen on other websites and here that WW has to feel a sense of lost or has to fall hard for her to turn around. I think the abortion killed her spirit for our M that she has nowhere to fall or feeling of lost other than the $$ support she gets from me. She already said that I was never there for her to support her emotionally (and she has good examples throughout the many years.. and I have to agree with this true statement.. I SUCKED as a H).. but I am working on my personal growth.
Removing $$ support is the one thing I think she will feel the impact. Because the emotional support was never there she has nowhere to fall/loose. Question, is it too late to pull back (limit) on the $$ support?
Last night, I lied down with kids as I put them to bed. Kids heard a sound and immediately think W is leaving the house. S8 calls out, “mom!” and the S10 jumps out of his bed and runs out hoping to catch her; fortunately she was not going anywhere. Even though WW and I do not argue or raiser our voices at each other in front of kids; I can see that my kids sense something is not right. I feel sad.
Please read Cadet's initial post that had the link about boundaries. It explains it much better than I can. Wonka has given a ton of examples in how to state boundaries. And here is one post copied from Puppy, giving examples between boundaries and controlling.
Quote:
This is how I explain it to folks (this example was to a male betrayed spouse):
The best way I can answer is that if you make it about HER, they will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."
If you make them about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."
Example:
"I forbid you to see OM" = CONTROLLING
"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY
"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING
"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your recent affair, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting him by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY
"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING
"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY
Make sense?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
There used to be a poster here named Jayne, who one day summed up the concept of boundaries better and clearer than just about anything I've ever read, so I decided to save this in my archives. Obviously, change the gender as needed to fit your own sitch:
Jayne, on “boundaries”:
Think about boundaries like this:
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.
If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Here are some boundary setting statements and enforcing them.
Boundaries are for YOU and for your own well-being. Boundaries are not controlling at all. Simply statements of actions, comments, or behaviors by the other person that are not acceptable. It is signaling and communicating to the other person what's happening and what you will do if they persist in their actions.
To get you started, you might want to read Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boundary: I will no longer let someone yell at me on the phone.
Enforcing a boundary: When someone starts yelling at me, I will calmly end the conversation. "Let's talk about this tomorrow when we can speak more calmly." "I don't like the names you are calling me. We can talk tomorrow." Then you hang up.. you don't wait for the person to say, "O.K., fine," nor do you get into a debate. You hang up. The person doesn't necessarily have to understand your position or agree with it. This isn't about communication right now. This is about your boundary. Two different things.
"I am not going to discuss or debate this with you."
"This is non-negotiable."
"I understand that you are upset. Perhaps we should discuss this later when we're both in a calmer state of mind?"
"I think I need to take a break from this conversation. I will talk to you some other time."
"Please don't speak to me like that. I really don't like it and it is hurtful."
"I've asked you not to speak to me like that. I love you very much but I don't let anybody speak to me like that."
"I don’t have to listen to this."
"I'm not obligated to justify myself to you."
"That is all I have to say on the matter."
“I’m not trying for one of us to be right or wrong, but for the relationship to be the best it could possibly be. I need XX."
“I’ve given this a lot of thought. I am learning more about myself and what I can and can’t do and what I need. And I need XX.”
“I understand you think it means I’m selfish. Still, I need XX.”
“I am not trying to be controlling. I am trying to be open and honest about how I feel. I need XX.”
“I’m not sure how to answer that. But what I do know is that things can’t go on this way. I need XX.”
“It is true that we don’t see things the same way. I wish we did, because this isn’t easy for me either. What I need is XX.”
"That's too big of a topic to tackle right now. We'll speak about it another time."
"I hear what you're saying. I'll consider it."
"You may do X. I have decided to do Y. There's nothing more to discuss."
"If you continue to yell/be abusive, I will hang up. I'm hanging up now."
"I know you're feeling low. I'm not in a position to be very supportive right now, however."
"I find that this conversation is pushing my buttons. I'm getting off the phone now. We can speak again later."
"Discussing this by phone seems to trigger a lot of emotion for us both. I will summarize things in an e-mail. We can resolve it that way."
"I'm not available by phone right now. Please e-mail me."
"I need to take a few days off from speaking about this. Let's talk on Friday."
"It is hard for me to keep my heart [or eyes, ears] open to you when you are yelling at me, and it is important to me to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you. If you cannot stop yelling at me, we will have to talk another time. I want to keep my heart [eyes, ears] open to you, and I do not know how to do that when you are yelling, so I am going to hang up and talk to you another time."
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks, I did go back to read the entire post. I need to be careful how to phrase my language. I failed to mention that the last time WW and I spoke on R the other night she ended the conversation (turned it on me) by saying that it’s all about me.. making reference to how she feels.. that I am self-centered. So I have to be careful on using first person statements.
How do I do 180 (to not come across as self-centered) because I see her point; and do it without pursing?
Hi Sandi, that brief confrontation (15 secs of sarcastic comments back-and-forth) in front of kids was addressed the following night. WW and I agreed that it was uncalled for and not to do it again. Truthfully, I am the one who would make sly comments in front kids; she would catch them but not respond (that's why this event caught me off guard.. she provoked and I swung back with my comment).
I am making a more general statement that she turns things around (again, a rule I need to be more aware of.. to focus on her feelings not mine). When I express how I feel such as, you did (something) it made me feel (like this).. she falls back onto her perception of me being self-centered and never caring about her.
Sorry for the lengthy explanation I was making reference to this event that happened the night we agreed to avoid confrontation in front of kids.
Originally Posted By: 123mich
However, later that night I did press her on what has her upset. She initially gave me attitude that she did not have to tell me anything since I did not tell her. Apparently, she needed $ to pay our bills and went to another bank where I deposit $ from my paycheck (none from hers) to save for rainy day and kids’ college fund. We dip into it when she does not have $ to pay monthly bills; she has always be the owner of the M to paid bills (I did the long term $ planning). Well, I closed the account to drop her from the account (remember she took $2k in cash saying she did not have to tell me about it) so I dropped her from this account (I can’t trust she and was protecting myself and kids; she could in theory take the $). She was pissed at this because when she went to the bank they told her she is not on the new account.
This led her to rage out at me for trying to kick her out of MBR when the house was sold to us by her parents at the low end of the market value (she threw that in my face.. I could have said that we renovated the entire house since then.. but didn’t). She went on to say, “yes I left the MR and had an A but you left me first and was never therefore me so F@C! U!!”
I cannot recall the details on how we got from $$ to house. The point I am trying to express is that she turned my action (bank acct) and MBR (again she took it upon herself to move her things out of MBR based on a comment I made but then moved her things back) into it being about me (her view is that I am selfish).
Ahhh.. this is so mentally confusing, fustrating, painful.. but I am getting there.. detaching. HUGE THANKS to you and those here.
