Re: LBH w/ a WW trying to save my M (3)

[gs9]

she is a manipulator. So she is definitely trying to do that. She spoke a lot about me taking the mbr, how she felt like it was "unchristian" and several of her friends agreed that I was peeing on her. I don't really care what her friends think. I know she lies to them and doesn't tell the whole truth to anyone. And this morning she asked why I didn't dust last weekend like she asked me too. I told her I did the cleaning and repairs around the house that I intended to do. My true thoughts were you are not acting like my wife so you do not get the privileges of my wife.

[Thornton]

Right. She tried the forceful approach, said you pushed her etc.

Now she's switched gears and tried a softer approach.

Keep on working on you, gs. And try to find healthy things to GAL. I would avoid gambling if at all possible.

Do something different. Something that pushes your comfort zone and that doesn't keep you out until 5am.

[gs9]

Agreed. The poker really set her off. It's too bad because I enjoy it and have made a little money at it but I would completely give it up because it makes her anxious. We did discuss a healthy balance.

So full DBing or light and light DBing would be.....
- still go out 1-2x week. but be sure to spend time with family when the boys are at our house
- reply to her texting and reaching out but don't over do it.
- Her LL is acts of service. So should I start doing some of these things? Not everything I use to do but some of them?
- Do I ask if she would like to go on a date with me?
-When I do go out give her my itinerary and when I'll be home?

[Thornton]

- still go out 1-2x week. but be sure to spend time with family when the boys are at our house YES
- reply to her texting and reaching out but don't over do it. YES
- Her LL is acts of service. So should I start doing some of these things? Not everything I use to do but some of them? NO
- Do I ask if she would like to go on a date with me? HELL NO
-When I do go out give her my itinerary and when I'll be home? HELL TO THE NO

[Thornton]

Dude, she is having an A.

Don't worry about her, she fired you. Be the best YOU and best father, gs.

Let her realize how big of a mistake she is making (without talking to her about it). Be so awesome that she notices and thinks to herself "wtf am I doing???"

[Zephyr]

^^^ x2

[annab74]

My true thoughts were you are not acting like my wife so you do not get the privileges of my wife.

Gs, I apologize because I haven't had the chance to read through all your story yet. For that reason, what I'm about to say may or may not be relevant, so please feel free to disregard if I am totally off base. I was wondering if your W wants a D because she has an OM or because she is having difficulty recovering from your infidelity? I ask because, having lived through the experience myself, I think the dynamic is totally different.

I know in previous posts you have said you felt like you have given 100 percent for a long time. But I also noticed multiple comments like the one quoted above that kind of sound like maybe you don't feel like W deserves the things she asks of you...or that you shouldn't have to make certain efforts because she's not reciprocating and it's not fair.

I will tell you, when my H's affair was first uncovered, I was the one who was going to leave, and he was the one giving 100 percent to make me stay. The thing is, infidelity doesn't just destroy your marriage. For the betrayed partner, it destroys your entire sense of self. Prior to H's affair, I always felt like a fairly attractive, successful, confident person. But overnight, my entire self worth went out the window when I realized he had chosen to be with someone else. Suddenly, I no longer saw an attractive, thin, accomplished female in the mirror. I saw a 38 year old with wrinkles around her eyes. I felt old, fat (at 125 lbs!!!), and ugly. I remember thinking to myself on more that one occasion that, because of these things, I was too worthless to live. It sounds ridiculous now, but it was very much my reality for a long time.

I noticed H's efforts to fix things, but I couldn't work on our marriage when I was struggling so badly just to continue existing. The A made me a bottomless pit of insecurity and need, and I had to figure out who I was and what my worth was as a human being again before I could even think about repairing my M. His many efforts were bandaids that helped me make it through the day, but they did nothing towards long term repair of our M because I wasn't yet ABLE to work on our M. If he had treated me with a lot of the advice I see meant for WAS instead of trying to meet my (sometimes unreasonable) needs, I would not have even bothered to try at all.

I say all this not because I think my way was the right way, but just to give you another point of view from a W who has been there. Maybe your W is being manipulative, unreasonable, not trying, etc., etc. But maybe she is just doing the best she can right now. I'm not saying you should do anything and everything she asks, but I think it's worth considering that it's possible she's reaching out to you in the only ways she can right now, and maybe you shouldn't hold it against her if she can't give more. Sometimes we are too wrapped up in our own pain that it makes us selfish and unable to see or even care about what someone else is going through. It's not because we're bad people...it's simply self-preservation. We turn inward to lick our wounds and recover.

With my H, there was nothing more he could have done that would have fixed things. I just needed him to stand there with me in the storm and not give up until I found my way back. Ultimately, it did not work out for us because he couldn't do that, and he walked away. But if he could have continued to be there for me, even when I was hurt, unreasonable, angry, etc., over what he did, I would have found my way back to him. I eventually did anyway, although it took me almost two years... If W has an OM, or is overtly playing games and mistreating you...OK. But if not, do you love her enough to ride this out, no matter how hard it is, without demanding she meet your needs when she isn't able to?

[sandi2]

. I guess what I'm saying is if she starts talking about R I'm going to need to see some work/progress/commitment on her part. I'm going to need her to come along side me and do some work too. Does this make sense?

I think what you are wanting to see from her is a little effort. That's what my H needed to see in me.

When I made the decision to end my A, it was me deciding to do the right thing. That's all. I did not have any positive feelings toward my M. I did not feel love for my H. I did not want to work on my M. I, first, had to reach a point of being willing to be willing. I think my H became pretty discouraged b/c he couldn't see the internal work I was having to do. Not only did I have to deal with what I had done, and go through the withdrawals, but I had to forgive him for all that stuff I had resented about him.

I think your W needs a really good therapist to help her deal with past issues. So far, she's still making you out to be the bad guy while she's excusing her own unfaithfulness. With her track record of unforgiveness, it must be terribly discouraging for you to keep marching forward.

[gs9]

AnnaB

Thank you so much for your input. It is very relevant

I was wondering if your W wants a D because she has an OM or because she is having difficulty recovering from your infidelity? I ask because, having lived through the experience myself, I think the dynamic is totally different.

I believe my WW wants the D bc she is going through what you went through. She is yet to be able to heal from my unfaithfulness. She is not yet willing to forgive and begin moving on. I believe the A's are a coping mechanism.

I know in previous posts you have said you felt like you have given 100 percent for a long time. But I also noticed multiple comments like the one quoted above that kind of sound like maybe you don't feel like W deserves the things she asks of you...or that you shouldn't have to make certain efforts because she's not reciprocating and it's not fair.

I have been giving 100% for a long time. I believe I still am and will continue to. I don't believe she deserves the things or privileges of a W bc she is choosing to continue her A's. I don't believe I'm concerned with what's fair or her even reciprocating my efforts because I know she has a lot of healing to do before she can work on our M. I am willing to do all the work holding our M together but not while she continues her relationships with these OM. I did not file the D and do not want the D bc I'm willing to do all the work until she's able to help.

I'm not saying you should do anything and everything she asks, but I think it's worth considering that it's possible she's reaching out to you in the only ways she can right now, and maybe you shouldn't hold it against her if she can't give more

I think she is reaching out to me the only way she can. And I am willing to give her everything I have but I'm really struggling with her ongoing A's. She is still regularly talking to the OM she slept with 5 months ago. She is not talking to her 2nd PA bc he told her he wouldn't talk to her until the D. And I know she is at least regularly talking to a 3rd man. What am I to do? I loved her openly and unconditionally even after I found out about the first PA for about 6 weeks. Then I started 180's. I hold the A's against her not her hurt and inability to work on our M. I know she will need to heal before she can work on the M

I just needed him to stand there with me in the storm and not give up until I found my way back

I'm here! Fighting this storm. She's choosing D and A's. Even with her ongoing A's I'm not choosing D.

If W has an OM, or is overtly playing games and mistreating you...OK. But if not, do you love her enough to ride this out, no matter how hard it is, without demanding she meet your needs when she isn't able to?

she has mistreated me for years. It's just been through this DB process that I've started not worrying about her anger, insults, verbal abuse and started standing up for myself. I love her so much that she has been playing games, she does have other men, I'm not demanding she meet any of my needs and I'm still standing here with the door open waiting for her to come back to me and our M. I'm not pursuing her like a lost puppy. I'm keeping the door of R open to her praying she finds her way back.

Thank you again AnnaB. Your insight is invaluable.

[gs9]

Sandi

I think your W needs a really good therapist to help her deal with past issues. So far, she's still making you out to be the bad guy while she's excusing her own unfaithfulness. With her track record of unforgiveness, it must be terribly discouraging for you to keep marching forward.

I've really tried to catch myself when I begin to complain or be a "glass half empty" person. I tend to be a very positive and optimistic person. Plus the Lexapro helps.
She's been seeing an individual therapist periodically for several months. She volunteered information that the only thing they work on is why she can't forgive and start to move forward. I believe she needs intense therapy for abuse from her childhood and anger.

It has been hard to march on but I feel it is making me stronger everyday. I have learned so much through this turmoil about God, myself and relationships. This experience has been invaluable