Re: She Wants Me to Leave....3rd Time in 4 Years 2

[mutatio]

This flirty nature is an indicator of weak boundaries. Watch out that your trusting nature doesn't turn around and bite you in the arse. Control is an illusion.

[isittoolate]

Guys, thanks for the advice. I know that you've all got my best interests at heart and I appreciate it!

Things have moved on.

W invited him round after I had suggested it. The excuse was to fix an awkward leaky tap and have a cup of tea.

He arrived when I was out on my running club GAL but I got to meet him for 10 mins.

Describing him as a village idiot was cruel on my part, but he is a sandwich short of a picnic. More like a gentle giant. He does have several health problems not least bipolar and told me he had a health check today and had been referred to 'fat club' and had to have a colon exam by camera.

There is undoubtedly a level of inappropriateness to this relationship but it's not a typical EA.

However I can only treat it like an EA and W as a WW..
W is mentally with an EA and is probably dreaming of a PA but not with this guy.

It would be nice to get Sandis and or Mr Bonds perspective on this

[isittoolate]

What started as a good day with W wondering about my new evenings out and new GAL has turned very sour..

She is p1ssed with me so I've retired early. Best to keep out the way.on second thoughts that's the Mr Nice Guy method so I'll go down and sit in the same room for an hour.

I asked her why she didn't introduce him to me earlier (months ago) she said ' I told you I was meeting him for a coffee and you said 'What? Xxx the weirdo!' So that put me off' He is my friend!'

I remember her telling me about the coffee meet but I don't remember my response. Xxx had been doing some building work for friends of ours.

I feel like crap regarding my response. PS xxx would like to be my friend as well after tonight!

[isittoolate]

So I went into lounge and she engaged in convo.

We didn't talk about EL, she just talked about her day, the yoga class she went to, and a visit to her other dork male friend whose 50th it is today. She doesn't even like this guy as he is so boring to talk to yet she still went to see him. I validated and tried not to talk about me.

W seems to love picking up life's waifs and strays.

So not a bad finish and glad I went back to see her as I won't see her until Sat morning.

I doubt she will talk or txt tomorrow or Friday

I'm off to Glasgow in the morning.

PS I had a great session with the A running group and was able to compete with lads 20 years younger than me. I feel fitter than ever.

[OhGreat]

If he's not all there, how can he be a best friend? What does she get out of her r with him?

Look, with my w there were all new friends, new networks all built around the premise of activities for kids. I spoken to every cheating woman I know (yuch) and they all had the same stories. Same mo's. 40s, botox, tats, sports for kids, new friends, new best friends, disrespectful of h all of them. I think you need to fix your own faucets and go to your kids sport practice. They are awesome 180s.

[isittoolate]

I'm away until Friday evening.

Time to detach except for call to sons.
Time to read DB again
Time to refocus
Time to reset goals

[isittoolate]

Goals:


With W:
1. I will not follow W around house like a puppy dog
2. I will not initiate conversation with W but will engage when she does
3. I will not txt, or phone her unless she does first
4. I will change the evening dynamic to be less available for her
5. I will continue to perform some house duties as before BD but not extra

Kids:
6. I will show love to our boys each and every day through word and deed
7. I will bring fun and laughter into the house and lighten the mood
8. I will do more to organise childcare
9. I will ring the kids before bed every night I am working away
10. I will kiss the kids goodnight and hug them and say ILY when I am at home

GAL:
11. I will reignite my passion for running and enter a few races
12. I will start salsa dancing lessons – one or two per week
13. I will contact old friends and meet up with them – one every two weeks.

Personal
14. I will take care of myself with regard to sleep and reduce my sleeping pills
15. I will maintain my present weight and not lose anymore.
16. I will shave each and every day
17. I will get a new Hairstyle?
18. I might get some Botox? (If W can have it so can I!)

[isittoolate]

From Zephyr to Roiste:

I thought this post was fantastic and needed it on my thread as I believe a lot pertains to my R:

Maybe I missed something...I didn't think you were working towards NC: I thought that - your wife has not filed for divorce, you are living in the same house, you are working to strengthen your relationship with your wife, your 180 was be more open and honest with her, your goal is to have a more beneficial / complete relationship with your wife.

I think that we all see what is written on this site as the end-all process. You and I and a few more are certainly in a different category (maybe) than many who seek help here. We are not straddled with a battle with a woman who is clamoring to get out. Your wife has no idea what she wants or needs right now. I went through this exact same internal struggle bunches of weeks ago.

does your wife need space to make up her mind. YES
does your wife need the opportunity chose her path. YES
does your ignore or fight with you every time you open your mouth - NO, right?
She does not need someone to tell her how she feels. She does not need someone to push her. she does not need a father.

She could use a friend right now. It is the last place you want to be, I know...that place between a lover and a stranger. Listening to so many of the veterans and the discussions from DB Coaches, that is precisely the location that you have to be for this to work.

You are working to rebuild a foundation. That foundation cannot be a physical one like when we were kids starting out with a fresh love and relationship. That is not an option with you and your wife. If you are not going to fill this need of friendship, companionship or confidant then who will? there are others who would be willing to stand in for that position, I assure you of that, we both know what the implications there are. He is not the problem. He should not be occupying any more of your mind right now, he's not paying rent so don't give him the space. The problems are and have always been between you and wife. He may be a scumbag or a $hit head, or even a pleasant guy...who cares...he is not important to your life.

I am not trying to tell you what to do. I have made more mistakes in this, than anyone I'll bet. The whole while though, I have been true to me and compassionate for my marriage and wife. I have to be true to myself with boundaries that I will not allow myself to be hurt by her actions or the actions of anyone else. I will not be disrespected and that has been made clear. I have to be strong for my family, confident for my development as a man, and make myself truly a man a woman would be a fool to leave. I have to lead whenever possible, to show not only how I am willing to treat me wife for my children’s sake, but how I want to be treated as well.

My wife may not be willing to jump into bed with me right now. For countless reasons - she hates her body, she felt used for sex for years, she should want sex for her and not as a duty to me, she felt controlled into it, because she is mad at me about the whole friend thing, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF REASONS. We can't make her want us right now.

Through all of this struggle till now, she texts me, she calls me, sits with me and is willing to talk more now than she has in a long time. I went through years of her wanting nothing to do with me. She now shows me affection in other ways - even a little physical (I've gotten some of the best, sensual kisses this last week than I've gotten in a decade). She has been supportive and demanding of respect ON MY BEHALF from my children. Helping more around the house, etc. It is taking time, a lot longer because I’ve made my share of mistakes, was holding on too tight, just expected things to get better – and oh ya she is a stubborn-assed irish woman, who holds resentment like it was gold.

We are building a new marriage out of the ashes of our old one. There needs to be a time from you to understand that maybe she needs someone to think of her for more than just a physical outlet from him. I realize that this may sound like a contradiction because so many women who actually break, go out and have an affair, I don't think that it starts out with them wanting to get laid. I think they have a need to feel like they are needed, useful, appreciated, worthy of intelligent conversation, respected for all they are, they need to be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD (that is my #1 failing all through my marriage - I've written at length about that and I have been working to fix that part of me).

Truth is we are finally starting to have fun together as a couple and as a family and hopefully building a future together. She deserves love and respect from me. How we showed our affection all those years was not the same as she wanted, this we now know. This is where all of the learning about love and love languages and how men and women differ starts to really come into play. And yes, eventually she will need to learn to understand how we would like to have my needs met too.

So what is she missing that you can provide her, while still giving your wife the time and space to explore who she is and what she has become, where she wants to be? What behaviors can you introduce into your relationship, where you do not compromise who you are and still show understanding and compassion for her and not pressure your wife? This is will allow a stronger relationship to blossom. I am not talking about catering. I am not talking about YOU stopping going out and doing your GAL, or living your life for you. This still needs to happen for your development and for you to help give her space.

From what I’ve read, finances are a big thing for you guys right now. Is there a way you can have more conversations where you listen more than talk, validate, ask her opinions, etc. You have gone through a long soul-search for your business, how much of that process involved your wife....as it sits right now that is still her livelihood too? I realize that it is your career, but unilateral decisions are just not going to cut it here. Her opinion should be heard in all of this.

The physical needs of a man cannot be understated, I know. I have actually had to say to myself...So let me get this straight, you are willing to leave your wife, soul-mate, companion and best friend, solely because she does not provide the physical affection and satisfaction that I need right now? Isn't that the crux of the problem here. We have called it a half-of-a-marriage, and I have heard this over and over again (hell I've said it how many times).

From a fundamental perspective, what does that tell my wife (even if I’ve never said it, I’ve felt it and that translates into pressure)...that I am willing to walk away from our life together because you will not have sex with me, even though she needs that space to figure herself out...that her needs right now mean less than mine, that her trying to work on herself is not good enough or fast enough. That is not an easy commentary to take on.

It comes down to this for me, is this woman worth it? PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Is she or isn’t she.

That is the decision that we all need to make. Not is this part good enough or not, ALL or NOTHING.

I will go back to something that Cadet typed my first couple of posts, what is she was in an accident, maybe there was a different context than this, but allow me to explain. If my wife had cancer and was unable to have sex with me for the next 3 years for whatever reason, would I leave? What if she were to be injured to the point she could never be able to meet my needs like that again? Would I leave? My answer is no. To think that she is punishing me or that this is a conscious choice is very short sighted on my part and have needed to really read so many women’s posts of their MLC / WAW / WHATEVER issues where they could not be touched by their husband to really START to understand the hell that they are going through with this. Mix in the possibility of things that have happened in their pasts that we may not be aware of or have not considered through this ordeal and their struggle begins to make more and more sense when we are told, ‘It has nothing to do with us.”

IDK, maybe I am back to bargaining again in my head. Maybe I've missed to boat for an iceberg. Maybe I am just phucking nuts.

All I know is that for the first time since I've gotten here, and really for the first time in my life, I feel like I am beginning to understand what Love is truly about. I understand what compassion and giving is imperative. Vulnerability is necessary to be able to love. We have to be receptive to be able to allow someone to love us. We have to allow ourselves the possibility of loss to truly love freely. Basically I lived my whole childhood learning how not to love, uugh.

I feel like I have not been fair to my wife with expectations that she should be ML to me simply because that is what I need right now. She can't and that is on her. She knows that I would love to have sex, but I certainly don't need to pressure her for that. All I know is that I owe it to myself to really focus on me and part of that is giving. Sounds stupid, but that is what I want to do. I am no longer depriving myself of things I want to do, quite the contrary…I’m planning nights out, I am working on hobbies and basement when I can, contributing to the community, finishing projects, I haven’t done a load of dishes in my house in two weeks (can I say Hell-YA and I don’t care to). I am doing my share, probably more than I should, but for now it is improvement and I don’t feel like I am being taken advantage of.

I spend so much of my free time with the kids playing games, coaching and helping with homework (even doing the holiday party at S10 class tomorrow). Point is I am living for me, giving her space and time to make her choices and do her thing – all the while showing her that I value her for all that she is.

Um, so wordier than I wanted, yikes. Sorry for such a long-winded post, I guess I needed to get that out.

I really am starting to like the path that I’ve forged. I know it is the right path for me. Where it leads we will see.

I still have hope. I still have faith. I still have me.

[Zephyr]

IS, You just posted a huge list of things to do - GOALS. Lets first start to work on you for right now and give the wife some space to breath. Right now you are doing a lot of 'Reacting' and that is not the point of DB.

You need to focus right now on YOU to level off a bit. There is a lot for you to think about and to get straight before you can really start trying to rebuild your marriage.

Space is key to start. Space for her to BE and space for you to grow and learn and start to see what is really going on around you.

I think there may be some fruit in that post for Roiste for everyone to consider...It was meant for him, really. each sitch is a little bit different, some have more similarities than others. OK? There are many, many situations where trying to be best friends to your wife is the last thing and most damaging thing you can do in your relationship RIGHT NOW, Does that make sense.

It shows that you signed up in 2011...what were your goals back then, have you kept working on them?

What did you change back then that helped, hurt. Could you please try to remember and post some more of what has gone on between those different 'bombs' there may be something bigger going one that we haven't seen.

[isittoolate]

Zephyr

The goals I intend to score every week on Sunday ...like Azzork.

I think they are achievable and relatively short term.

I have changed big time since 2011-2012. Back then I was a miserable passive aggressive, with few friends, few interests and physically had let myself go.

I now have a more close friends, physically very,very fit through running and cycling, and have cured my passive aggressive nature, say 90%. I have new teeth, trendy clothes for my age, have been on many cycling trips away with friends.

I also improved a lot in my interactions with W. Very supportive of her work, career, validating,not fixing, listening, listening, listening. Words of affirmation I am very good at. She has weight body image issues even though she is a size 10, less I love you and more 'you look great in that gym gear etc Acts of service - I stepped up and do more than her 60/40? Gifts I am good at as well - lots of business trips with small gifts when I return

Our R has suffered most from no-conflict , and a lack a intimacy/sex - both toxic to a MR. She wanted me to initiate more and I have a fear of rejection. She wanted more exciting, passionate, non bedroom sex, PT is her main LL.

No conflict - she never complained! She tried other ways , sexy lingerie, toys but I didn't step up to the plate. I complained of lack of QT - negating her feelings on this instead of validating and giving her the love she wanted, not all the other stuff.

How can I improve?

My goals plus more flirting, more seduction, more intimacy, more romantic, more sex - these are not possible in the present sitch

Also, I am reading about how to less of a Nice Guy, be more assertive, more confident in my own skin around women and alpha males.