Re: LBH w/ a WW trying to save my M (3)

[sandi2]

Is she the type who has a difficult time forgiving, or is it b/c of this particular issue? You did not have an A nor a ONS. It was sexual misconduct, and it seems she is having her own affairs in reaction to what you've done. I am not saying drunkenness is an excuse. I would have been very upset, if it had been my H. For her to have 2 or 3 affairs out of spite for you kissing a woman's boobs......seems rather exaggerated. But, that's just me. You volunteered to tell her the truth, you were very remorseful, and have worked to gain her trust again.

Some people simply cannot move past the hurt, and need professional (and maybe spiritual) guidance to help them. When I see continued punitive behavior, it causes me to think that person is not ready, or doesn't want to forgive. She wants to hurt you as much as she feels she's been hurt. Until she can find it in her heart to forgive.....what can you do to convince her? I don't really think you could do enough to win her forgiveness. I mean, you could try to be perfect and it wouldn't end her pain. It's something she has to do for herself.....not for you (if that makes sense). It's really sad, b/c she's multiplying her own pain by punishing you.

When my H and I were reconciling, I asked him if he thought he could ever trust me again. His answer: "I have to, b/c I can't live in a M without it". It was for himself, not for me. I understood it and could accept it. However, I made sure I did nothing intentionally to cause him to wonder about me. I made sure I did not act secretly about my computer activity, phone messages, etc. I didn't close doors that would indicate I wanted privacy. I would give accountability, even though he didn't ask for it. Do you see what I'm saying? If you are being the best man you can be, what more can you do?

Sending prayers for you both.

[annab74]

Why not? You want to save your marriage, right? Then put your pride and who aside and give her more. Be the man only a fool would leave. A selfless one.

This. I think we get too hung up on what is fair or not fair, rather than on what is going to fix the relationship. I just posted this on someone else's thread, but one of the biggest reasons I am in the process of getting D is because of an attitude like this. H had an A, and I felt justified about anything I wanted to say or demand of him afterwards (insults, lack of trust, constant reassurance, explanations, extreme accountability) because "it was his fault." Wrong. He made the choice to have an A, but we both contributed to the environment in our marriage that made him vulnerable to that temptation. If you want to save your M, now is not the time to focus on what's fair. There is a reason your M is at this point, and it is probably not the sole fault of any one individual.

When H and I got married many years ago, my FIL gave me a bit of advice that has always stuck with me through the years. He said, people always say marriage is 50/50, but it isn't. Sometimes it's 70/30, or 10/90. Sometimes you're doing all the work, but the next time, it will be your spouse who is carrying the heavier load. Since you are the one who wants to save your M, right now is your time to carry that load. Keeping score will only get you a D.

[ep0215]

Mbj - I think you said my point better. We want to save our marriages so right now we are doing more of the 'work' until the fog clears and our spouses come to their senses.

[gs9]

Thank you Sandi,

Is she the type who has a difficult time forgiving, or is it b/c of this particular issue?

She is the type of person who has a hard time forgiving. She doesn't really understand what it means. She will claim to forgive but she never let's it go. She has a list of about 25-30 things she will bring up on a regular basis that she holds against me. Some of these are actual things I have done that hurt her, some I did before I met her and some never even happened. They are times she rewrites history and creates a different reality. It's really difficult to deal with.

You did not have an A nor a ONS. It was sexual misconduct

Agreed. She claims I committed adultery and therefore she has the biblical right to divorce. At first I argued that I did not commit adultery. Adultery is fornication and I did not do that but I realized arguing this led to her fury. Now I try to validate her feelings with out agreeing w her.

I am not saying drunkenness is an excuse

absolutely not. no excuse for what I've done.

For her to have 2 or 3 affairs out of spite for you kissing a woman's boobs......seems rather exaggerated.

Agreed. She is a vengeful person with a lot of anger issues. She was abused as a child and our MC said this anger is a defensive mechanism that needs professional help to deal with.

Some people simply cannot move past the hurt, and need professional (and maybe spiritual) guidance to help them. When I see continued punitive behavior, it causes me to think that person is not ready, or doesn't want to forgive. She wants to hurt you as much as she feels she's been hurt. Until she can find it in her heart to forgive.....

We were in MC until she started her A. She has also been seeing her own IC. she told me the other night that the thing they talk about is getting over my unfaithfulness and why she struggles with it.
Our MC said she has to be willing to forgive and willing to move on and she just is not willing to move on from anything.

However, I made sure I did nothing intentionally to cause him to wonder about me.

I too did all these things. I began by reading several books such as worthy of her trust, winning your wife back before it's too late, resolution of a man....etc...over the last 15 months I have read 16 books on marriage, building trust, divorce, affairs, recovering from infidelity, helping your spouse heal etc.....I've put in work and am willing to keep working hard.

If you are being the best man you can be, what more can you do?

I can always be better but I am being the best man, father and husband I can be. I learn something new everyday and will continue to

[gs9]

Anna and EP

I think you said my point better. We want to save our marriages so right now we are doing more of the 'work' until the fog clears and our spouses come to their senses

I completely agree with you and I feel I have been doing 90% of the work for over a year and 100% of the work since she started her A. I am willing to continue fighting alone for this M. I guess what I'm saying is if she starts talking about R I'm going to need to see some work/progress/commitment on her part. I'm going to need her to come along side me and do some work too. Does this make sense?

[gs9]

BTW
I am so blessed that so many of you are responding on my thread. I really appreciate it. Especially today. There's a lot going on. Thank you for the responses and prayers.

[gs9]

DB coaching in 20 minutes and having the talk with W tonight. Good timing.

[gs9]

of course the talk could be just who gets what in the D and her asking me to fill out the sworn financial paperwork. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[gs9]

Well, the talk was not what I had hoped.
WW started the conversation by saying she believes the D will still go through. That ideally we would have our own homes and maybe one day I would ask her to dinner or something. We would see each other periodically and as issue arose we would see a counselor to address these issues. Then one day maybe there would be a new proposal, rings and ceremony. she said she needs the space and time to heal independently. That she realizes letting me go she runs the risk of me finding someone else but she doesn't believe God is telling her stay in the M.

To summarize
she feels for the last 6 weeks or so (since I've been DBing) she doesn't feel I love her or want to stay in the M. She feels I've been peeing on her like a dog by reclaiming the MBR. I haven't been spending time with the family or kids. Playing poker and hanging out with one of my friends are huge red flags for her.
My assessment.
- she reached out to me to have the conversation.
- she still showing some doubt about the D
- she said "I love you"
- She still will not validate my feelings. When I expressed feelings about our M she became defensive. I pointed out her defensiveness and that she has rarely validated my feelings. She continued to be defensive.
- She is still hurting from my unfaithfulness,
- She is unwilling to forgive and move on
- she is unwilling to admit any wrong doing on her part now or throughout our M
- There were many times during our conversation that I thought "D will be a blessing. I do not want to be M to the way she is today"
- We hugged several times
- She is reaching out to a Christian woman who has been through infidelity for counsel
- This morning she came to me and apologized for a couple things she said last night. I told her thank you. She sat on my lap and I told her she has apologized to me 3 times in the last couple weeks. This is really big for us. She agreed. I told her I really appreciate the apologies.

Where to go from here
- continue light DBing- I had really taken it to extreme with staying away from the house and staying out late. I was doing things to get a reaction out of her instead of doing things that I wanted to do.
-continue maintaining my boundaries
- acknowledge her reaching out, gentleness, and openness but not get too excited about it
- be the man only a fool would leave by putting family first and being w my family is what I want anyway.
- believe none of what she says and only half of what she does so I'll be watching for positive actions and not paying attention to what she says. I'll be watching for her to reach out to me, text, call or in person. Her moving closer to me. watching for her to take action.

any other suggestions, comments or criticism is very welcome

[Thornton]

My honest opinion, I see manipulation again.

I also think she is in an active A. She wants to keep you on the back burner by having you spend time with family and not move on while she figures out her affair. I could be wrong, but that's what my gut tells me.

Continue DB'ing.