Triangulation (Differences between WAHs and WAWs 4

[JulieH]

i have just read about the concept of triangulation, based on some experiences of another poster.
In my case, I have been complaining about husband not paying CS to some family members. . I realize I come off as being a victim this way, and he comes off looking pretty bad. I feel like I am doing it because I just don't know what to do, and in one case because I felt like I was being being criticized for

[JulieH]

Sorry didn't edit above post in time...

I guess I am concerned because I have questioned his actions with other people and I am wondering if I am being manipulative, and abusive. I felt like I was doing it because often times I don't trust my own interpretations and because we are so at odds I can't discuss any thing with him. I didn't realize that I am bringing others into it.

Just realizing that Involving friends/family was not a good thing and was emotionally driven. At the same time, I felt like I needed support and help.

[Vanilla]

Julie,

If he isn't paying CS, then this isn't triangulation. You can let yourself off the hook on this!

Triangulation would be he HAS paid CS and you say he hasn't and involve others.

You say one thing when it's really something else. It involves lies and creating flying monkeys.

If I understand you then the cash due to you hasn't been paid?

Go ahead complain as much as you want, if he can and should pay and hasn't.

Hope that explains.

There is however an issue which is genuine, you aren't receiving child support and instead of enforcing the boundary on the child support you complain to a third party.

It gets you sympathy and you still have no child support.

So what could you do to get the CS, that is more constructive.

V

[JulieH]

So with triangulation, a person is lying with a conscious motivation to manipulate?

I don't do that. I do talk about my relationship when I am frusturated though. When I was reading about it, I got a sick feeling that my behaviors have been abusive. Dysfunctional definatly but I would never ever want to be abusive to someone. Sometimes when I read the complaints that posters have of their spouses I recognize that I am guilty of those behaviors.

[Zues126]

Hey Julie. I love this forum but also get a bit overwhelmed by the diagnoses and labels. On the one hand there are things that should never be minimized or put up with. Abuse. Not protecting your rights financially or with your children. Boundary issues. Etc. But one thing I know is that we are all flawed humans. If we followed everyone around with a video camera and recorded them throughout their lives and their M we could make anyone out to be a villain. I'm not suggesting it's no big deal and we shouldn't try to grow, I just don't know that I'd be so quick to label yourself as abusive. Or your WAH. You're just people with problems.

If I've noticed two things (and this isn't some big breakthrough) it's that 1) you've got a lot of rage, and 2) you're very focused on your WAH's behavior as a reason for your rage. I wouldn't call it abusive, but it could definitely be a destructive cycle where the more anger you have towards him the worse his behavior gets.

Men need to feel approved of, appreciated, desirable, and admired by their partner, and that is most often felt through physical acceptance. If you're raging at H and in turn neglecting those needs because you don't feel he deserves to have his needs met or you can't be loving when you're so upset with him, well, that's not healthy for the relationship.

But relationship aside- and I think it's a good idea to leave the relationship aside for a bit because you could use stronger defined boundaries- that rage comes from you. Rage is just pain transformed. Being angry at him is a reaction to feeling hurt from him. And when you list out the behaviors that hurt you, oftentimes it hurts so much because you're already wounded in those places. Like if you have a sun burn and he pats you on the back and you scream at him for hurting you. If you have a deep inner pain that you avoid by using him to medicate, then when you don't get what you need from him you'll think he's the cause of your pain, and you'll be angry that he doesn't love you enough to fix your broken heart.

I know, because I've been there and done that.

Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but what I have learned is that if we're ok with ourselves, ok on our own, and don't have any gaping wounds...then what other people do doesn't hurt us to the same level...and that means we don't react to the same extreme.

So if I were you I'd be following the chain back to you. What does he do that makes you angry. Why does this hurt so much. Where in there are you looking to him for self care that you need to do for yourself? If you can learn to truly take care of yourself, nurture yourself, meet your own emotional needs, and stop the bleeding in your heart, then I think it will be easier to set good boundaries, radiate more positive energy, and ultimately be a better partner (while you need a partner less).

So I agree that while our WAS's behavior is outrageous, hurtful, and inappropriate at times, I think when we feel this much negative energy it's a sign that we have to work on ourselves. I know this is super obvious and I'm sure you've thought these thoughts before, it's just really easy to jump on the "WAH is a jerk" bandwagon which doesn't stop your pain. For now the more you can leave him out of this the better. Boundaries and healing IMHO.

[Ancaire]

Well Julie, I don't know about you, but this post from Zeus really spoke to me.

I am flawed. I make big enormous mistakes. I'm not as strong as people seem to think. I lash out ferociously when I am in pain. I have trouble sticking to a budget.

I'm also really good in other areas. I'm a complicated human.

I also have wounds that need healing, self-examination, and self-work that needs to be done. Fortunately, I've started down this road a bit.

My struggle is leaving H behind. I feel like I need to save him from himself, like I'm giving up on him by choosing to focus on me. On the other hand, H doesn't want to be saved. He wants something else entirely. I need to cut the rope holding us together, and just worry about getting myself happy and whole.

I don't want to hate him. I prefer to go numb if I can. Nothing he does should affect me. The anger woke me up a little, but I'm not going to let it swing me all the way to negative.

I believe I'm ready to let him go. Not a painless choice, but not nearly as painful as trying to work on myself while also holding onto a snarling cat fighting me for freedom.

I can't even focus on R with the sheer amount of self-healing to be done. The healing needs to take place. I've put it off far too long.

[Vanilla]

So with triangulation, a person is lying with a conscious motivation to manipulate?

I don't do that. I do talk about my relationship when I am frusturated though. When I was reading about it, I got a sick feeling that my behaviors have been abusive. Dysfunctional definatly but I would never ever want to be abusive to someone. Sometimes when I read the complaints that posters have of their spouses I recognize that I am guilty of those behaviors.

Doesn't have to be conscious, can be subconscious. There is manipulation at best, lies at worst. Exaggeration or charm.

The idea is to get the third party to act in your shoes, and do your dirty work. It involves more than mere complaining, if it were just complaining we would all be in trouble.

Can aloo be a dynamic where someone uses 'poor me' to get a third party to side with them against another, so the other stands in their shoes. They aren't asking for help directly.

Zeus is right. However complaining and bitterness about another's behaviour can be an excuse to defer action or soothe. Sometimes that's valid if there are no remedies. Often others see that as emotional blackmail, in which case they dig their heels in, or the person complained to secretly supports the other party.

Often we need support, it's better to make observations than complaints. That means you are more likely to get helpful support. If however your complaint is valid then eliciting support can be helpful. For instance some of my friends gave me witness statements as support for my non molestation order.

It is how you do this. Are you looking for help and support for you? Are you asking for the third party to intercede on your behalf? Or are you asking the third party to verbally or physically stand in your shoes for action and then you stand back?

Example:

WH isn't paying CS, I am distressed and unsure what to do. To your best friend isn't triangulation

Can you speak to WH on my behalf please, the CS hasnt been paid again and I know he listens to you. To his dad and this isn't triangulation, it's a request, DaD can say no.

Or

Go beat up WH for his child support for me, emotionally, financially or physically because he hasn't paid me the CS. WH is a very bad person, poor me, this keeps happening to me.
To a group of neighbours.

Your boundary on CS is breached, you tackle WH yourself, if it keeps getting breached then you involve authorities or take legal action. You have a safe person, your bestie for instance you let off steam with, not everyone around you.


V

[V2pt0]

I don't want to hate him. I prefer to go numb if I can. Nothing he does should affect me. The anger woke me up a little, but I'm not going to let it swing me all the way to negative..

I am just going to chime in here and give some thoughts on going numb. Just as many WAS' use As as self-medication, I think going numb is also an unhealty coping mechanism. I know, because I am an expert at this. This is how I dealt with the loneliness the emotions during my M and is a big part of why I am on here. The reason it is unhealthy is you can't selectively chose what emotions to shut off. When you go numb, all of your emotions are held back, even the good ones like joy and happiness. Those are emotions that you really want to be accessing right now as you transform into Ancaire 2.0. You want your H to see that you can be and will be happy without him.

I actually think feeling and acknowledging all of your feelings, both the good and the bad is healthy. You just need find better ways to cope with the negative ones: exercise, break some plates in the garage, go to IC, punch a pillow, etc. Just don't do what I did and throw something at a wall. You may end up with a whole to patch. If you go numb, those feelings will still be there and will eventually come out at some point in an even bigger roar which won't be pretty. Feeling the pain and anger is part of the grieving process that you need to go through in mourning the end of your M so that you be be ready for your next M, regardless of who it is with.

If you haven't, check out a TED Talk by Brene Brown on Vulnerability. She talks about numbing feelings. It is one of my favorites.

[gonegrl]

Julie, I am learning a lot about triangulation because of my situation. I think of course you have every right to complain about not receiving child support, but may be best to limit your complaining to one or two people- here is good place, an IC, maybe one trusted friend or family member. You are feeling some guilt about this, no I don't think you are being abusive but your conscience is telling you to pull back on the complaining, so take that as a clue that you need to pull back.

Also, don't expect that taking the "high road" is going to pay off anywhere but with your own conscience, H is not going to notice or appreciate it (but he will notice if you do talk about him most likely). Its one of those things that you do for your own integrity.

I will applaud you though!

[JulieH]

Photoka, I am feeling a little bad that family is involved. Now they don't want to be around husband. He is upset about it and feels that family should look past it for good of children. Now, a lot of it is through their own observation (not me complaining). Because he was living with my family and very depressed and detached they witnessed some pretty selfish behaviors (neglecting kids, and me) and then leaving and not providing support. So upon more reflection, I don't think it was triangulation. There was one episode, where 1 of his family members was criticizing me because of my family involvement and basically saying it's not in best interest of kids for my family to not want to be around my husband. I told him about how husband was perceived and he had no clue about what I was dealing with financially. This might have been triangulation but at time I felt I was defending myself and my family.