Black and white

[Zues126]

Thanks guys. I have a few more thoughts (not conclusions) on this.

Phou, I've always idealized arranged marriages. Traditions. Social expectation to do your part in your family and community. I think this was the glue that held families together for so long. It seems like when it wasn't a choice of who to partner with, or whether you stuck it out...that's when people decided to appreciate what they had, and make the best of it.

Now, you could argue that it kept people together in low quality relationships. I've tried hard to look at the exaltation of personal happiness and freedom in our culture, and the divorce rate, as a positive- in that it forces people to put together stronger marriages because people simply won't settle and will walk away if they aren't happy. We are all here trying to grow as people in part due to the loss of our M's, a motivation we might not have had if our spouses had stuck it out. So the positive is that maybe this will prompt us to become better people, capable of better relationships. You could almost argue that the divorce rate is a good thing. I don't buy it, but it's not black and white

As for what's possible, two thoughts on why I am afraid of expecting too much. One is that the reason people walk from marriages is because they feel they can do (and deserve) "better". Anymore when I hear people describe the dream relationship they want I tend to assume these are tomorrow's WAS's because it's just not possible. Also, I think maybe being on these forums for 15 months has just convinced me that marriage is impossible in general, and it's only a matter of time before your partner pulls the plug.

My feel is that the majority of M's end in divorce, then you've got those permanently separated, those that resign themselves to cohabiting, and those that stay married and nag and disrespect one another. I've assumed that the best a marriage can be would be a comfortable working partnership, where there are some disappointments, gripes, unfulfilled desires, resentments, irritants, and pain points...but where those are managed, and offset by some positives...and that the result is an overall effective partnership that isn't unbearable for too many years at a time...and that in the middle of that acceptance of mediocrity comes the occasional surprising joy of having a companion through the hardship of life, or comes a moment when you do get a flash of what you desire, or a glimmer of realizing your spouse understands you and cares for you a bit more than you thought. I tend to think that's what's possible, and desiring more is just being unappreciative of what's possible and setting ourselves up for failure. I tend to think in this world we are destined to be lonely, misunderstood, unfulfilled, and suffering...and that joy is the byproduct of accepting this fact and finding meaning in our toil.

Maybe if there were marriage forums where people have these great marriages, with deep emotional connections, fulfilling sex lives, tremendous mutual respect, and spiritual connections...maybe I would believe that this unicorn existed. I'd love to read those forums, to see people that have achieved this, to hear them talk about their partners, to see how they work through the challenges. Because from where I sit it doesn't look achievable. And I think I could learn a lot from those people. Does anyone know of those forums?

This is great conversation. Thanks for participating. I'm trying not to be black and white, and dare myself to do great things in my life, without setting myself up for being unappreciative of what you can get in this life.

And yes, Phou, it is truly my shangri-la to be at a pool table. Play some music, take a shot that is difficult, then break it down, break it down, break it down, until it starts coming easier. In fact, my favorite memory was one particular shot. A long diagonal shot across the 9', bridged from 3 inches off the rail so I was jacked up (elevated cue), trying to make the ball and draw the cueball (backspin) so the cueball came back to where it started. In the beginning I shot the shot from the headstring (the kitchen line). Then I backed it up to the first diamond. Then I practiced from the rail but just stopping the ball, not drawing back. I did 25 shots from each position. Every day. For 3 months. At the end of three months I started hitting the shot right, and getting the cueball to run STRAIGHT back right through where my cuestick followed through. I did it again. Then again. It was like I won the lottery. I was so happy I did it for hours. Then I woke up early the next morning and ran downstairs to see if I could still do it or if it went away. I could still do it. This makes me happy.