The choice was mutual. I made sure not to influence her decision. Each time we discussed I allowed her to speak first, validated, then shared my thoughts. W is a very emotional person to begin with BUT never thought this would have such an impact on us. W says (and I believe her when she shares) that the choice was mutual but she does blame me for not being there that day (she is emotional but never shows weakness but this will always get her eyes tearing). Absolutely, I question myself daily on the choice made.
That's rough, but like you said, no way to change the past. My WW has dumped on me all the times she "tried" to tell me there were problems and get me to work on our M. My recollection is quite different, and in hindsight, I do see some signs but I think it's a common problem in marriages. Men and women communicate differently, leading to frustration, and breakdown. All you can do is learn from the past and try to do it better in the future. Same for your W.
Originally Posted By: 123mich
I am certain on the timing of W’s EA. The proof is the cell phone records and W acknowledged OM was there as a friend during those times as someone outside of our social circle she could talk too. I did confront her at that time and we went to MC (1st MC) for a brief time (she showed remorse). Where I failed was I thought MR was strong and allowed that friendship to start back up a few months after (which led to PA).
Very common scenario for a WW. I let mine hang out with a mutual "friend" alone quite often for several months. I knew the guy, trusted him, and trusted my W. He didn't even seem like her type and I had no fear that she was capable of having an A. Again, not much you can do now but learn from the past and do it better from now on. No M is affair-proof. NOw you know and can do it better next time.
Originally Posted By: 123mich
She does share that abortion not only broke her but changed her; that the issue (wayward, affair) are her problem; that she cannot be fixed (that there is nothing to fix with respect to MR because it does not exist). She also has said this is her decision and she has to live with it whatever the outcome.
An abortion is a very traumatizing event for a woman. My WW went through 3 consecutive ones and the last just about killed her emotionally. We can sympathize as men but I don't think can ever truly understand the depth of the pain and loss. But that still doesn't excuse her having an A. Rather than turn to her partner, she went looking for comfort outside the M. The whole thing about "the MR does not exist" is more common WW script. Mine actually said she wasn't currently cheating on me because our M had been over for years, and she "emotionally divorced" me a long time ago. Don't try to make sense of it. But she's right in a way, as the old M is dead and any future you two have together will be in a brand new M.
Originally Posted By: 123mich
This is her domain, 2 masters in counseling/therapy and her line of work. I am LBH who is being DB. She points out that if it was not for the A things for me would not have changed (that I would still be the oblivious H). Reading the books, the A is me feeling the lost and I see her GAL and 180s but I also experience the WW activities (and it is killing me). Oh, did I share she is STUBBORN too (the most hardheaded woman I know).
She's probably right about the A. I think that almost every LBH could say the same thing; you changed because of the A. That doesn't justify the A. My guess is that most men would take things just as serious and do the work they need if a W would simply ask for a S or D. Men sometimes need a good kick in the butt to get the message, but there is never a reason to have an A - it just makes everything worse.
Every WW is hardheaded. Maybe that is part of your W's personality and she's always been that way, but even if not, she will definitely be that way now. Read Sandi's posts about the WW mindset and how they become filled with rebellion.
Me 47 W 42 T 24 yrs M 18 yrs W living with OM BD1: 3/7/2015 (A with OM#1) BD2: 4/11/2015 (A with OM#2, W moves out) WW filed for D, papers received 9/18/2015. Meeting to determine child custody 9/29/2015.
Journaling. Wife has been asking me if we should host a Halloween party. My kids’ friends are even asking us directly if we will have a Halloween party. Yesterday, W sends me an email during work with a link to fog machine; then follows up with a text. Why is she asking for my approval on a $50 fog machine when she withdrew $2k in cash earlier this month?
Journaling. Yesterday, W sends me an email during work with a link to fog machine; then follows up with a text. Why is she asking for my approval on a $50 fog machine when she withdrew $2k in cash earlier this month?
Hard to say, but that's all part of the merry-go-round she's on. It probably makes perfect sense to your W, but I wouldn't spend any time trying to figure it out. If you want to host a party for the sake of your kids, then I would say go ahead and do it. Just be honest about your motivations and don't look for this to be some sort of bonding activity with your W.
Me 47 W 42 T 24 yrs M 18 yrs W living with OM BD1: 3/7/2015 (A with OM#1) BD2: 4/11/2015 (A with OM#2, W moves out) WW filed for D, papers received 9/18/2015. Meeting to determine child custody 9/29/2015.
Did you always host parties? What was the dynamic? Who planned them? Who decided themes, decorations etc? IF your w always asked for stuff like this when you planned a party, maybe you can say you've already taken care of it, or you're going to someone else's party or whatever. But these mundane things, this is where the patterns are made. This is where the changes you make, the 180s can be felt. It's not all grand gestures.
Hi dwh, I appreciate the comments. Sorry, still learning how to post but I do know how to copy/paste.
"He didn't even seem like her type and I had no fear that she was capable of having an A". Likewise. My W was very deceiving about A. She made comments about OM's appearance in front of kids to throw us off (kids would laugh at her comments).
"No M is affair-proof". Yes, we learned this the hard-way.
"An abortion is a very traumatizing". Yes, men will never feel what women feel, again we learned this the hard-way.
"Mine actually said she wasn't currently cheating on me because our M had been over for years, and she "emotionally divorced" me a long time ago." My W shared the same message and more recently made a twisted comment to defend her action; is it an A if the MR does not exist?
Hi OhGreat, typically she plans the parties which really are about the kids. We don't throw many just a handful throughout the year.
I started a small 180 recently to break a pattern. At night after kids go to bed we typically sit on the coach (on opposite ends) watching TV. However, she is always on her phone (playing games, FaceBook, texting). I take the dog out for his nightly walk. My 180, I occasionally stay out longer than expected. She definitely notices because she makes comments and/or ask questions when I return (but like Sandi said, why should I offer her my time when she is with OM). I use the time to be on this board.
When the clinic confirmed she was pregnant we had to wait several weeks to have the procedure. I do not recall the reason for the delay other than insurance/HMO policy (and it was agonizing). During this time (the waiting) she would question our decision (I would not influence her thought just validated) and cry (she had no explanation so I claimed biological/hormonal changes).
"Mine actually said she wasn't currently cheating on me because our M had been over for years, and she "emotionally divorced" me a long time ago." My W shared the same message and more recently made a twisted comment to defend her action; is it an A if the MR does not exist?
I don't recall a story where the WW deemed the M as being dead or that she was emotionally D her H before she dropped the bomb or he discovered her A. Would be interesting to see the response if a LBH would say, "W, I did not receive any notification of an emotional divorcement or of a deceased marriage. I would assume the same liberties that you apparently have pronounced as being permissible while legally married, would apply equally to both parties of the deceased M. I really need to take a note that in my next M, I can decide to emotionally divorce my W or deem the M as dead, and she doesn't even have to know it. How clever"!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Journaling. Majority of our social life is amongst our kids’ friends’ parents. None of them know of sit. None of them have any idea since we are seen together in public (more specific, together but no public affection like holding hands or a kiss) and appear “happy”.
Yesterday, W asked for some cash to pick-up food (restaurant only accepts cash) for a casual dinner party with friends. My response was yes but don’t you have cash (in my mind thinking you withdrew $2k).
I realize we spend so much time together but learning to let go. Another small 180 I have been doing for past several weeks is I do not text her unless she initiates.
