Mowgli, I would love to do that! Unfortunately the state I live in has "common law" and I can't kick her out. She has also refused to leave until the D is finalized because it may look like abandonment of the kids.
I have all this evidence, but can't see to set boundaries that are actually enforceable. The last thing I want to do is say something, not be able to enforce it, and then appear weak.
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
I forgot to mention that my state also requires a 90 day waiting period before any divorce proceedings can be done. With that being said I have at least 4 months where we need to co-exist and create these boundaries. I still want to "win" her back, but need to be the best me first and stop being Mr. Nice Guy.
So any advice on my post above?
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
Boundary - you will not live in an 'open' marriage where spouse seeks to have needs met out of the bounds of their vows, meets someone else's needs and deprives you of the same. You will not be friends with anyone willing to threaten the fabric of your marriage and destroy the foundation of your family...that includes spouse.
Tell her point blank, You are tired of all of the disrespectful behavior to you. you have had enough of the disrespectful behavior towards your marriage. You do not want your sons to live in a house where they learn that it is OK for a spouse to cross the boundaries of fidelity. You do not want your sons to learn that it is ok for their future wives to treat them or their marriages like she has treated YOU. They will learn the truth eventually.
To enforce this...see Sandi's WW spouse thread, there is a list of 5-6 immediate actions that should be taken by the betrayed husband including putting her out of the bedroom, you not providing any emotional support, companionship, financial support (not required by law at this point) and certainly no helping her with anything that would be what we would all call a duty of a husband.
Please re-read that thread extensively and JUST DO IT. DO NOT BE AFRAID OF HER BULL-$HIT. OK.
I think I just made a mistake today. I provided her with support and made her life a little easier. Our S6 & S5 get picked up by their grandparents during the week (due to our schedules) and on Monday/Wednesday my W goes to work a little later. She brings the kids to school and is supposed to leave the car seats at our house for my parents. Today I went home on my break and the car seats were not there. I called her to have her bring them and she said "can you come get them or your parents can". I said, "you need to bring them here" and she said "I can't, I am at work". So of course, Mr. Nice Guy, went and got them.
I don't know why I continue to bail her out of situations that I no longer need to.
I hate taking steps backwards.
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
I am copying a post that I put into another forum earlier. I think sandi2 is going to try and help me with some of it, but I figured I'd through it out there to anyone else who has insight.
I too fall into the "nice guy" category and have been submissive/passive throughout our 5 year marriage. We are currently going through the divorce process, but living in the same house. I have detached a great deal, but now find myself struggling with her noticing the 180 I have been doing.
Our interactions are almost non existent. We say hi in the morning, hi in the evening (after work) and might have a sentence or two about the kids. I have started working on GAL and we have created a schedule on what days we will go out. She was the one that wanted to go out on a regular bases and for that reason I found it necessary to create a schedule where we alternate every day. This way I can work on my GAL and not become a built in babysitter.
I have a few question to you Sandi2.
-If there is anything I should do differently to start showing I am confident and assertive. Again, I don't have any real meaningful interactions with her now. How can I show this?
-You've talked a lot about the W needing to respect her H in order to get away from the friend/brother category. She continuously stays out until 1,2 or 3am on her days. In fact, last Friday she was out until 5:45am!. I confronted her on this and she basically said "you can't tell me what I can or can't do". With our current situation I can't force her to come home by a certain time and thus have little ability to enforce. Should I just let her stay out and not care? Does it appear as if I am pursuing? Or am I doing the opposite and causing her to feel like she can continue to disrespect me and walk all over me?
-Should I invite her to do activities as a family? Seeing that it Fall and almost Halloween, the kids have several events coming up. I plan on taking them to these and also pumpkin picking this weekend. Thoughts?
I don't know if our marriage is salvageable based on how far down the path of D we are and the lack of interactions we have. I am working on me, but don't know if I am being too cold for her to even recognize I am changing and being the best me.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
Sandi2, I have been reading a ton of your posts on several different threads and your perspective is truly enlightening.
I definitely can relate to vise82 and many other H in these forums.
I too fall into the "nice guy" category and have been submissive/passive throughout our 5 year marriage. We are currently going through the divorce process, but living in the same house. I have detached a great deal, but now find myself struggling with her noticing the 180 I have been doing.
Our interactions are almost non existent. We say hi in the morning, hi in the evening (after work) and might have a sentence or two about the kids. I have started working on GAL and we have created a schedule on what days we will go out. She was the one that wanted to go out on a regular bases and for that reason I found it necessary to create a schedule where we alternate every day. This way I can work on my GAL and not become a built in babysitter.
I have a few question to you Sandi2.
-If there is anything I should do differently to start showing I am confident and assertive. Again, I don't have any real meaningful interactions with her now. How can I show this?
-You've talked a lot about the W needing to respect her H in order to get away from the friend/brother category. She continuously stays out until 1,2 or 3am on her days. In fact, last Friday she was out until 5:45am!. I confronted her on this and she basically said "you can't tell me what I can or can't do". With our current situation I can't force her to come home by a certain time and thus have little ability to enforce. Should I just let her stay out and not care? Does it appear as if I am pursuing? Or am I doing the opposite and causing her to feel like she can continue to disrespect me and walk all over me?
-Should I invite her to do activities as a family? Seeing that it Fall and almost Halloween, the kids have several events coming up. I plan on taking them to these and also pumpkin picking this weekend. Thoughts?
I don't know if our marriage is salvageable based on how far down the path of D we are and the lack of interactions we have. I am working on me, but don't know if I am being too cold for her to even recognize I am changing and being the best me.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Okay, I may need to ask for clarification. What do you mean that you struggle with her noticing your 180's?
First thing to do is STOP being a nice-guy type. She has fired you as her H, so stop treating her as though she's your W. Know what I mean? Being submissive and passive is one of the worst things a man can do to destroy his M. Don't believe it? Just look at all the nice-guys on the DB forum. Good that you've read NMMNG. Starsky also recommends reading hold onto your nuts.
You should use your own judgement about things, and not automatically submit to whatever she says or wants. It becomes a habit for some men. So, break the habit and form new ones. Be decisive and show it by not asking her opinion or what she wants. Don't be a jerk, but stand up for what you believe is best for you, the kids, your finances, and your property. Do not back down if she gets mad. I see so many guys afraid of their W's temper. She gets mad, is in a bad mood......so what? You are not required to put up with it. Leave her alone and go somewhere. Do not show it bothers you! Women bully H's who are afraid of their bad moods. Sadly, men submit to it.
Do not be concerned about the lack of interactions with your W. It's when you make an effort to interact that she sees you pursuing her. Let her make the efforts. If she doesn't, then forget it. I know, you are worried about the D going through if you don't interact and get on a better level with her. Trust me, she will see it as you wanting to make up. You don't want to return to what it was before, right? So, you have to become a different man and she has to have time to see him.....and decide she wants him.
Quote:
You've talked a lot about the W needing to respect her H in order to get away from the friend/brother category. She continuously stays out until 1,2 or 3am on her days. In fact, last Friday she was out until 5:45am!. I confronted her on this and she basically said "you can't tell me what I can or can't do".
Well, she's right. She is divorcing you, and it's kind of late to start confronting her about staying out late. She is living as though she is not M. Maybe you need to do the same (without hooking up with someone, and that type of behavior).
Yes, without respect, a woman cannot truly feel in-love with her H. Her attraction and desire for him will bomb. A lot of problems in the bedroom stem from lack of attraction.....which stems from lack of respect.
Just what would you do if she stayed out until all hours of the night? Legally, there's nothing. Yes, it's disrespectful of her, but she no longer sees you as her H. Before she respects you, she will have to experience some consequences. You can start with not keeping the home fires going until she gets there. There are things you no longer have to do. You don't have to keep the front porch light on, the door unlocked, or the lights on in the house. You should not call and check in with her to make sure she's okay. She's a big girl! You don't have to keep her car in good running condition, or fill it with gas. You don't have to keep dinner left-overs for her. You don't ever need to wait up for her! You absolutely do not ask her any questions about her night out. She has removed herself out from under your protection and care. Let her feel some of the consequences. Yes, act as if you don't care. That is how you deal with a WW.
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Should I invite her to do activities as a family? Seeing that it Fall and almost Halloween, the kids have several events coming up. I plan on taking them to these and also pumpkin picking this weekend. Thoughts?
No, that is serving her cake. Plan for you and the kids. If she asks if she can go along, give some kind of impersonal response. "I really don't care what you do".
Here's the thing. At this point in your R, you cannot behave as though you were reconciling. It is the man's nature (I guess) to pursue and try to persuade the W, hoping to change her mind. It will not work with a wayward wife. She first has to experience consequences, gain respect for him, feel remorse, start feeling attraction, and be willing to do what is necessary to reconcile. I'd say your WW is not there, yet. However, a lot can happen in 90 days.
When she had chosen to do the right thing, and she gets her attitude and mindset right....then you can do some of the things you wish you could do at the moment.
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I don't know if our marriage is salvageable based on how far down the path of D we are and the lack of interactions we have. I am working on me, but don't know if I am being too cold for her to even recognize I am changing and being the best me.
At this point, it's not about trying to have interactions, okay? I doubt you could be too cold for a WW. Seriously! I wish guys could understand it. What you call cold is probably you trying to detach. Some guys don't know how to distinguish between the two, so if you think it's acting cold.....just don't worry about it right now. Trust me, if she starts seeing you be the man that attracts her.....she'll come after you.
Don't sit and pout. Don't show you are depressed, worried, etc. Be mysterious about your GAL. Not only does she not have to answer to you....but it's a two way street. The nights she's going out, be sure you and the kids are having fun as she's leaving. Don't do her chores. (If you've read my posts, you've probably seen me get up in the air about men doing all the housework and cooking for the WW).
Last edited by sandi2; 10/21/1507:40 PM.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you sandi2! Everything you said makes complete sense to me. My struggle has been on implementation. For years I was accustomed to treating her with respect and to care about her feelings. I know I haven't mentally made that shift and need to start making more impersonal responses.
Do you think there are certain boundaries that I should put in place? Or am I at a stage where I should just ignore and detach completely?
I need to stop being submissive and passive. This one is hard for me, but really, really, really need to change here. Last week she said she wanted to start switching on and off for the master bedroom (currently I have it 100%). I didn't respond to it, but I will not back down from this space. She has decided to have an A with OM and end our marriage, not me.
About 3 weeks ago I really started to work on my 180. MY GAL is Jiu Jitsu now and I am doing that 3 days a week. It truly is a great distraction and allows me to focus 100% on being the best me. This is also something that traditionally has been way outside my comfort zone. I believe this is something I needed to feel alive again and give me a purpose. 2 weeks ago she approached me when I was on my laptop watching a jiu jitsu technique and said she wanted to see what it was all about. She was curious about my new hobby.
The hardest struggle for me right now is with my oldest son (S6). He is biologically not mine, but I have been in his life since he was 2 months old. I don't think she even knows the impact this is going to have on him and me for that matter. Once we separate I don't know how long I will "be his dad". He already has a biological father (who is not in his life) and eventually will probably have another man in the picture. I love him like my own and always have. This is extremely hard for me and worry about my future interactions with him. She says she would never keep him from me, but I don't know if that will change and if as time progresses it will naturally dissolve.
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
Another morning struggling through this whole situation. I feel the need to share my thoughts and get it off my chest.
I don't honestly don't know exactly when our marriage went down a path where it wasn't salvageable in her mind.
As I look back over texts from her, I start to wonder when this OM came into the picture. She picked up her 2nd job waitressing back in May and the late nights with friends started to really show in text in June. Back then I thought nothing of it and it wasn't until I found the text to her friend on 8/14/15 that I questioned her. She stated she just met him the week prior at the bar. Looking back, I feel like she wouldn't have said "I love you, I'm just not in love with you anymore" a week after meeting a guy. It had to be longer, but how long?
I think I shared this part before, but it still bothers me and makes me question a lot. About 2 weeks after I found the text, we both took the day off from work and just spent the day out together. We connected like never before and really opened up to each other. I was very honest with where I felt I went wrong and she was as well. As we were walking near the water talking about something irrelevant to the situation, she started crying profusely and said she didn't want a divorce.
After that, things rapidly declined. I think it might have had a lot to do with how much I pursued and tried to snoop. However, I didn't know how to handle a potential A and the rejection that came with it. At this time (and still now), she admittedly denies there is OM. This really forced me to try and uncover the A and led me to do things I regret. With the more space I gave her, the more I feared I was pushing her to the OM. I now know that I was doing more harm than good by suffocating her.
I struggle now because I may never know what caused her to truly quit and if I caused her to run the other way. If i had just backed off earlier, would my sitch be different? Or would I have just delayed the inevitable?
The one thing I do know is that I realized I had/have a lot of work I need to do for myself. Getting a GAL has been huge and working on not being Mr. Nice Guy (a pushover) has been eye opening. I had no confidence, no self worth, no life energy. After reading ... I believe these character traits caused me to have a lack of sex drive and sexual issues. It also most likely caused her to loose desire for me in that sense.
I have since made huge strides in improving myself in these areas and will continue to do so. I just wish there was a way for me to have recognized them prior to all this unfolding in my life.
Thanks for listening, I just had to get it out there.
Last edited by Cristy; 11/10/1510:13 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other books/authors
Me-29 W-29 M 5 years (2010) Kids S-6 S-5 W Ring Off: 9/28/15 Filed: 10/12/15
Just chiming in to lend support and validate your feelings. We all go through stages where we feel exactly the way you do. It is 2 years from BD#1 and I am still wondering how it happened. It is ok to share your thoughts here. In fact, I encourage it. Better to air it out here, to a sympathetic ear.
That said, your last post suggests that are expending a lot of energy wondering, analyzing and thinking. Does it really matter when the R became irreparable or when the A actually began? These events are in the past. You can't drive properly if you are only focused on the rear-view mirror.
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If i had just backed off earlier, would my sitch be different? Or would I have just delayed the inevitable?
We all share these regrets. However, you are asking a lot of "what-if" and "if-only" questions. They are impossible to answer and will drive you nuts if you let them. They are also causing you to focus on a past that you cannot change.
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The one thing I do know is that I realized I had/have a lot of work I need to do for myself.
This is what you need to focus on, whatever happens in your R. you only dedicated a few lines to it in your last post. Perhaps you can list some goals that you have achieved or would like to achieve. It will place the focus back on you (instead of your W, or your past, or your regrets) and the things you can control.
