Last time we talked, I brought up that I was concerned about our youngest who isn't talking about this at all...not even really acknowledging it. Her response was basically that neither of the boys can possibly be all that upset given how lousy things have always been. I pointed out that maybe she was projecting a bit.
She didn't like that a bit. I also think she'd been drinking a good bit. Gets a tone in her voice and manner of talking that is different from being sober.
That about did it for me. I said OK, thanks for listening, and hung up. She texted me 5 mins later and told me the only reason I was hearing about it at all was because I'm still in the family home and they come by regularly anyway. And she repeated the bit about things always being lousy so they can't possibly be surprised.
For the second time, I said OK, goodnight. And got a good night's sleep.
Resumed IC today. Goal for today was to discuss what has happened, what I've done/am doing about it, and verify the following:
- that I'm providing leadership for my boys in a positive, loving, and honest way towards both them and my W, and that I avoid anything that could be considered manipulative
- that I'm not doing anything to hinder reconciliation, that I'm keeping the path home clear should she decide she wants to return and build the M we both want
- that I've got healthy and appropriate boundaries established in case she does bring up reconciliation before the D
- that I'm not neglecting my life, my goals, my future
- that I act overall with integrity, strength, character, and good faith
I've decided on an IC every other week through first of December, then decide whether I need to keep going or not based on what's happened, what's happening, and how I've done/am doing.
It's one day at a time...but each day is getting a little better than the previous one. This is the first week in 3 months that I generally have felt light, very little weight on my shoulders, and positive about the present.
Talking with W yesterday (again, kid stuff) she said she really appreciated my giving her space and time to think these last couple of weeks, how it was a nice surprise from what she expected. I validated, I think:
"I do see better how you needed that, and how my communication style tends to be more aggressive than necessary. I'm sorry you didn't feel that you could have that space without leaving, and I do appreciate your taking steps to truly solve problems."
The thing is...that wasn't BS and wasn't scripted. I have truly come to see that.
I'm not saying this was right or consistent with DB, I'm not sure, but I sensed an opening so said, "I'd be happy to go to lunch or dinner or something sometime if you think you ever want to talk about it."
Her: "I've been thinking about it. I'm trying to get there. I'll let you know."
Me: "I appreciate that."
Her: "So how's the house project going...."
And she asked me about a house project I'm working on. I gave a brief response, then, "Hey, I won't keep you, I'm sure you've had a long day. Hope you have a good night."
And we ended the call.
I don't have a lot of unreasonable hope here because she has done that a lot in the past years when we've had problems to try and head off my aggressiveness...she doesn't want to say yes and give me false hope/encouragement or talk to me and have me push on her too hard; she also doesn't want to say No for fear that I will, again, panic and push too hard, pursuing.
So I think overall this was a good 180 for her to see despite the fact we don't interact much right now.
The real challenge now is, if by some chance she does change her mind or open up a little, that's only the beginning of another long, difficult process, because we have too many serious issues to simply come back together easily and engineer the best possibility for success. Probably a long way off if possible at all right now, and I'm still trying to go by the rule of Don't believe anything you hear (especially since there is a strand of hope there which I don't want to blow out of proportion).
Made another meeting with IC for tomorrow to discuss what to do if she ever contacts me and decides she is interested in reconciling: what are appropriate boundaries/terms for myself, being prepared to hear things that could hurt without reacting negatively, more rollercoaster, etc.
I think I'm finally at a point where I'm detached enough to take things as the come and be ok regardless of outcome.
Good for you! Beautiful validation, great PMA, and so very smart to contact MC. At the very least, it opened the door to more open communication.
It will take time. Sometimes looking down the road and seeing just how much time can make you want to quit before you start, but cultivating peacefulness and patience will be a must.
Thanks. Every day it becomes more clear to me how important detachment is...and while nothing about this is easy, it has generally gotten easier to maintain that detachment.
I used to think of it just a coping mechanism. Which I guess at some level it is. Now I'm starting to see it as something I owe myself as well as my W.
It seems to me that what detachment really boils down to is emotional maturity achieved by eliminating a kind of narcissistic behavior/attachment with my W that fails to respect the boundaries that should exist and produce a healthy relationship with each other where real love, etc. can not only exist but has the greatest possibility to flourish.
Talking with W yesterday (again, kid stuff) she said she really appreciated my giving her space and time to think these last couple of weeks, how it was a nice surprise from what she expected. I validated, I think:
"I do see better how you needed that, and how my communication style tends to be more aggressive than necessary. I'm sorry you didn't feel that you could have that space without leaving, and I do appreciate your taking steps to truly solve problems."
The thing is...that wasn't BS and wasn't scripted. I have truly come to see that.
Nice validation, but a little wordy. Next time, maybe more to the point. Something like "I'm happy that the time away has helped you." I wouldn't keep mentioning your aggressive communication style, or thank her for trying to solve her problems. I understand the motivation but try to avoid reminding her of past problems in the M - you're not to that point yet.
Originally Posted By: tl2
I'm not saying this was right or consistent with DB, I'm not sure, but I sensed an opening so said, "I'd be happy to go to lunch or dinner or something sometime if you think you ever want to talk about it."
Her: "I've been thinking about it. I'm trying to get there. I'll let you know."
Me: "I appreciate that."
Oh tl2. Again, I get it, but asking her out is a huge form of pursuit, and will likely just push her away. Try to restrain yourself going forward. Wait for her to make those kinds of moves.
Originally Posted By: tl2
Her: "So how's the house project going...."
And she asked me about a house project I'm working on. I gave a brief response, then, "Hey, I won't keep you, I'm sure you've had a long day. Hope you have a good night."
And we ended the call.
Good job on being the first to end the call, and on a positive note.
Originally Posted By: tl2
I don't have a lot of unreasonable hope here because she has done that a lot in the past years when we've had problems to try and head off my aggressiveness...she doesn't want to say yes and give me false hope/encouragement or talk to me and have me push on her too hard; she also doesn't want to say No for fear that I will, again, panic and push too hard, pursuing.
The real challenge now is, if by some chance she does change her mind or open up a little, that's only the beginning of another long, difficult process, because we have too many serious issues to simply come back together easily and engineer the best possibility for success. Probably a long way off if possible at all right now, and I'm still trying to go by the rule of Don't believe anything you hear (especially since there is a strand of hope there which I don't want to blow out of proportion).
I think I'm finally at a point where I'm detached enough to take things as the come and be ok regardless of outcome.
Sorry to tell you, but nope, you're nowhere near detached. Brother, I know exactly what you're feeling because it's where I was at a few weeks ago. If you're still contemplating reconciliation and how you will handle it, you're still too attached. That needs to be something that you don't close the door on, but also do not sit around and think about. It's very difficult to really detach, and takes a long time. Everyone is different and I think sometimes it takes a bunch of little things all adding up to reach that point.
In my case, I was doing the same as you for months, making posts about how detached I was, but the next day worrying about something WW posted on Facebook, or some comment she made. What finally pushed me over the edge was when WW introduced the OM she is living with to her immediate family. Something about that realization flicked a switch in my mind and I truly began to accept that my M is over. You need to reach it in your own way and on your own time frame. I'm not saying you totally let go of hope, but you tuck it away in a corner of your mind, and try to not focus on it in your day to day life. You're doing well overall so keep working on you and things will get better.
Me 47 W 42 T 24 yrs M 18 yrs W living with OM BD1: 3/7/2015 (A with OM#1) BD2: 4/11/2015 (A with OM#2, W moves out) WW filed for D, papers received 9/18/2015. Meeting to determine child custody 9/29/2015.
Thanks for the thoughts. I agree that suggesting we talk sometime wasn't a good idea, but you're simply not correct about the level of detachment here.
Tl2, I am glad to see that you are doing well. You've been a big help for me. It sounds like your communication with W is going well. I hope she does invite you to dinner soon. That's where I would like to be too!
Good luck, and keep up the good work
35 3 boys Not my circus, not my monkeys anymore....
tl2, I am going to echo dday's sentiments. You have been a big help to me, too. It does appear that there is a candle at the end of the tunnel. Keep it up!
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Thanks guys. Honestly, knowing her (and you'd really have to know her), she's smokescreening something, most likely a PA/OM. Either way, I'm not too worried about it.
Got a lot of work projects, house projects, and other stuff going on.
Had another good C session. He thinks my mindset is good right now but agrees that asking her to dinner wasn't helpful or necessary, and I see that.
What I realized in IC today was that I'm ready to be done one way or another. Too much nonsense for too long.
Really enjoying the peace, quiet, and lack of tension around here...
