Brink x 2

[Azzork]

Thanks WhyUs and roiste. I really appreciate your comments. I think for the time being I just want to do my bit to keep things calm and relaxed.

Yesterday Dh initiated a conversation about me. He told me he was really really really anxious about the house sale, and our upcoming move. I just validated like mad and asked him if there was anything he needed. He asked me out for lunch - I kept it light and friendly - and then later on that night he came and slept in bed with me. First time in forever. I kept it very light and didn't do any pursuing at all.

From some of the things he said, it seems to me like he feels really burdened with practical responsibility in our household, and also taking care of my mental health. He was basically my carer for a long time - I don't need that any more - but I think for him, the choice feels like either looking after me as if I'm an invalid, or avoiding me altogether.

I think I need to update my goals to concentrate on modelling the kinds of behaviours that reassure him I am capable and healthy and want to interact with him, but don't need to be looked after.

I need to give this more thought. But I am feeling more hopeful. Just don't want to get carried away either.

SJ -
Im not sure if youre doing this, but it has been suggested to me to keep a positivity journal of things that my W does or does not do so that we can notice them. Otherwise, we might miss some of the signposts. These seem like positive steps and I think you should note that they occurred to remind yourself in the future.

[roist]

How are things this week?

[WhyUs]

SJ- Have not heard from you in a while. How are things going?

[SpinningJenny]

Thank you!

I stepped away from here for a while - I felt like obsessing on here about every little nuance was getting a bit unproductive for me. That I was focusing on him and his changes instead of me and my goals.

So - this month has been mixed. We ended up selling the house - which was much quicker than expected. I've seen a change in his behaviour - he's been more open about his feelings, and I've heard him verbally take responsibility for stepping away from our relationship once or twice - that is, he's actually admitted that is what he has been doing.

I've been sticking to my goals and it looks to me like he feels a bit safer in getting closer to me - though I still can't say he's actually warm or affectionate in the ways that I would like.

Money is still a bit of an issue - we're not going to buy a house in the new city we're relocating to. I put down a boundary there for myself and said I didn't feel safe getting into another huge financial commitment with him until our relationship was in a better place. So we're going to rent for a year and see what happens. I don't think he agrees with me on this, and I don't think this course of action is what he'd prefer. But I do need to be wise as well as kind.

I've also refused to get into fights with him. He has this habit of coming up to me and announcing what I am thinking, what I am feeling, why I am doing things. Most often times he is wrong - and it still leaves me in the dark as to what he is thinking and feeling. So no real communication takes place and in the past it has ended up with me saying, 'no, that's not what is going on with me,' and him insisting that it is, and us going round and round fruitlessly.

I believe he might be projecting - he has an issue he wants to discuss, and instead of owning it, he tries to push it onto me. That might or might not be true - it's just a guess on my part based on observations - but in any case, the past two or three times he's started like that, I've said, 'I'd love to hear about how you feel and what you're thinking and what you want. And I'd love to share with you the same about myself. But I'm not sitting here listening to you tell me what is going on with me when you have no way of knowing that,' and then I've left the room. I've been calm and respectful - and he's been respecting my boundary in ending the conversation and things have been relatively peaceful.

I'm not sure where we go from here. We're moving out of our current house in the New Year, and will rent a place together. I don't want to rent long term, and I don't want to commit to a mortgage together while things are the way they are. So I guess the ball is in his court right now.

Still working on my goals and GAL.

[Avanti]

Hello SpinningJenny

It is great to have you back and you seem to have made a lot of progress, you've been reading the DR book haven't you? ;-) It certainly shows as there is some great stuff above!

May I ask why you are going to rent somewhere with him and not move into separate accommodation? Is it simply financial and if so, how could you ever D even if you chose to?

Avanti (formerly Beagley)

[SpinningJenny]

Thank you! Yes, I have been reading it. I pulled the covers off it so I can read it whenever I want - he has no idea.

May I ask why you are going to rent somewhere with him and not move into separate accommodation? Is it simply financial and if so, how could you ever D even if you chose to?

That's something to think about. I could afford to rent a place and live somewhere separately from him with the children. I could afford the childcare I'd need if he was living elsewhere, or I could afford to pay child support if he was taking primary care of the children. The second of course would not be my preference, but he is an excellent father and I have no wish at all to get between him and his children. Nor do I wish to see them any less than I do now, myself.

Right now, he couldn't afford to support himself never mind the kids. He'd need to find a job quickly, or go to his parents. He hasn't worked outside the home for about five years now. He does have plans to return to job-based training, and he wants me to financially support that. In an ideal world I would have no problem with that at all - it is his 'turn' to concentrate on his career after devoting years to the house and our kids. But I also feel used and financially taken advantage of when it seems he's not interested in having a close relationship with me, only in the financial and practical benefits of living in a shared household.

Renting together felt like a compromise. It felt I was saying, 'this isn't working. I don't want to pretend that it is. For my own peace of mind and sense of well being I cannot get into a big joint debt with you unless things improve.' But I do want them to improve, and I think me throwing him out (he doesn't want to leave - or at least, he hasn't dropped a bomb and he comes home every night of his own free will!) would end things irrevocably.

I feel more detached but I am struggling to feel warmth and respect for him. At times he seems pathetic and cowardly to me. I believe he's probably scared - that I will behave as I have done as the past - and I think the changes he is noticing in me are scaring him too. I am warm and friendly and respectful but I don't chase him at all.

A couple of days ago he said, 'are you angry at me?' and I said, 'no, I'm not. Why do you ask?' and he said, 'you've just been different.' I wasn't sure what to say to that. I figured if he wanted to have a relationship talk or ask to spend time together, then he would - and he didn't - so I left him to it.

[Avanti]

A couple of days ago he said, 'are you angry at me?' and I said, 'no, I'm not. Why do you ask?' and he said, 'you've just been different.' I wasn't sure what to say to that. I figured if he wanted to have a relationship talk or ask to spend time together, then he would - and he didn't - so I left him to it.

If this comes up again, maybe a "what do you mean?" or " how does that make you feel?" wont hurt?

Don't forget men don't have as many words to use in a day as men (no I am not being sexists, it's a reality born of our ancient ancestors) so what he said might be as close as he'll get to what you consider to be wanting a R talk. Did he ever start conversation about your R in the past? If not, then look out for signs that maybe he is, but don't get caught up waiting, just keep it in the back of your mind.

WRT the housing, you could always get a mortgage with your name on it, the same for the deeds to the house and say that if things change between the two of you then you will add him later, it shows you are prepared to become more independent but not shut him out right away. Renting sort of gives him a hold over you plus you'll get further behind in the housing market, which may make it difficult to buy in the future as prices will have risen.

You are doing great SpinningJenny, keep it up.

[SpinningJenny]

Thanks so much.

I wouldn't want to get a mortgage with just my name on it - he's fully entitled to half the equity we have. He didn't earn the money, but he took care of the kids so I could earn it, and that means it belongs to him too. I guess we could split the equity, I could buy somewhere, and he could rent, but that again feels very drastic. I'm torn between wanting to be fair, and wanting to protect myself, and not really knowing what he wants or why he wants it.

I'm very skeptical of the Mars and Venus theories about men and women. I did check out that book but I thought a lot of it was fairly badly researched and gender essentialist rubbish. More so for us, because he's the nurturer and much better at hands-on-parenting and domestic work than I am, and I'm more career focused and ambitious in that area than he is.

BUT

we do communicate in typical gendered ways. He is strong and silent, and I get emotional and babble. I think sharing feelings is always a good thing, and he (from how he behaves) seems to think actions speak louder than words.

I need to respond to him without smothering him.

Today while I was at work he texted to say he'd noticed I was looking tense and asked if I had back pain. I said I did - and I do, all the computer work is terrible for my neck and shoulders - and he said he'd give me a massage tonight if I wanted one.

I think it has been about three years since he's offered something like that without prompting.

[Avanti]

I'm very skeptical of the Mars and Venus theories about men and k out that book but I thought a lot of it was fairly badly researched and gender essentialist rubbish.

The only bits I retain as a lot of it was a little tenuous are that females have a higher word count per day (typically) and that men cannot, I repeat, cannot multitask but women aren't good at focussing and finishing one thing off.

More so for us, because he's the nurturer and much better at hands-on-parenting and domestic work than I am, and I'm more career focused and ambitious in that area than he is.

Some might say that's through choice or circumstance rather than something different about either of you. It's a small point let's not get into a dispute over it.

I need to respond to him without smothering him.

Yes, let him sit in his cave occasionally and let him be, until he comes out and not before. He will ultimately thank you for it and be a nicer man as a result of it. I hated my W coming into my cave and asking if I was OK on the flip side though, I thought she wanted to be left alone in her cave when actually she wanted to talk something out without me trying to fix it.

Today while I was at work he texted to say he'd noticed I was looking tense and asked if I had back pain. I said I did - and I do, all the computer work is terrible for my neck and shoulders - and he said he'd give me a massage tonight if I wanted one.

I think it has been about three years since he's offered something like that without prompting.

That's someone who cares. He's watched you, thought about it and reached out. It's not something to cling onto but it's something that can and should be nurtured with a big thank you for thinking about you. But you were going to do that anyway weren't you? 😀

[WhyUs]

SJ,

Have you written down goals that were suggested in the DR book? If so, it would seem to me that him asking to give you a massage and asking if you are mad would both be things that may have met your initial goals if you had written them down.

I don't know if I lost something somewhere but I am not sure about all the D talk and moving into separate houses. I agree with preparing worst case scenario in the future (i.e. renting) but separate housing seems extreme right now especially since there is not OW involved in this sitch.

Glad you read the Mars and Venous book. I think he says in the beginning that not all of the theory will apply. I would use what you think does apply. It is more to make you aware of things and the relationship dynamic. It gets you thinking anyway. You know your own sitch best so you will have to take some of it with a grain of salt.

Anyways, sounds like things are headed in the right direction for now.