Am not sure where I belong now

[Zues126]

Zues, two points here. One, there's a vast gulf between perfect and screaming and throwing things for two hours. Not throwing the remote. Throwing things and screaming for two hours, while your kid is listening to it all. No one is saying that her Girl's H needs to be perfect for her to reconcile with him, but the second time my kid is cowering in terror, I'd make sure there was no opportunity for a third. Abuse doesn't have to be physical to be damaging.

Second, Zues, you've come a long way, you've worked on you. And that was my point to Girl, that, yes, she needs to work on her, but her H needs to make some changes, too. And so far there's been no indication that he even recognizes that, much less is willing to do it.

Sometimes you are so black and white, Zues. Why does it have to be perfect or nothing? My M wasn't perfect, obviously. I would have stayed anyway. Sometimes the abuse threads make me extremely uncomfortable because they hit a little too close to home. I would have stayed anyway. He cheated on me. I would have stayed anyway. But when my kid is cowering behind a door, terrified, for the second time, that's a line that's been crossed for me. Everyone has a line, Zues, and it's usually substantially short of perfection.

Very good points Sunny. I appreciate you elaborating. And also for recognizing that I have been doing what I can to grow a bit. I know I'm not the same person I was in the M.

And you're right. Two hours is a long time. If I exploded it was more like two minutes. That is a big difference. Not that two minutes is admirable.

I think I just get fatigued because my underlying belief is this: There isn't a M in this country that both parties couldn't, if they chose, make an iron clad case to their family and friends that their spouse was a monster and they had to file D for their self preservation. In the old days this was physical abuse only. Then alcoholism. Then emotional abuse. Then neglect. Lack of intimacy. Growing different directions. Irreconcilable differences. And on in on.

The way I see it is this- yes, in a marriage you will be hurt, neglected, abused, trodden on at times, your personal freedoms will be compromised, and you will go through stuff that no one 'should' have to. But that's part of being M. As are some wonderful times and a life long partnership in which you trust each other to stay through those times and grow and change and evolve. The notion that through personal growth there's a way to attain the fruits of a M without the strife, and that no one should put up with any pain...well, I don't agree.

It threatens me personally because I don't think I'll ever meet anyone's standards as it seems everyone these days subscribes to this attitude. And I feel the pain of the countless millions watching their families be destroyed by this outlook while still subscribing to it themselves and not realizing it.

Again, I see the gap between 'not putting up with any pain' vs. 'not putting up with abuse'. But if I seem black and white it may be because it all looks odd to me. I wouldn't leave a M unless I truly felt threatened, like my spouse was going to poison me or something. Short of that I would grit my teeth and deal with it. Maybe in 5-10 years it would be different. If not I would have the peace of mind that I did what I feel is the right thing. Because I believe that M isn't about the life that it gets YOU, but the opportunity to love and serve your spouse the way you love God. That's what God asked from us, and in the 'marriage expectations' series (youtube) Andy explains this in great detail. I think he's spot on. And you know my M was bad- 6 months of not talking at a time, years of no ML, deep pain, etc.

So this is my way of explaining why I'm so black and white. To me you don't leave a M no matter what. Everyone debating on the shades of grey on when it's appropriate to walk is confusing to me because it truly is black and white.

But maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe it's good that people walk from M's because it forces us to grow. Maybe a series of 5-10 year relationships and broken families if it triggers growth is better than a life long partnership with borderline abuse. Maybe I've got my own feelings of insufficiency that trigger fear of abandonment, and I am just too personally threatened by talk of leaving anyone ever. Maybe I'm just super expansive and crazy and can't see the world like others. I don't know. At the end of the day though I can challenge my thinking and try to learn and grow. The notion of unconditional marriage is a hard one for me to let go of though.

Thanks for talking SB. Updates on my thread later, hope to catch up with you soon

PS- why do I have to either be black and white or NOT black and white? Can't I be just a little black and white? Why does being black and white or not have to be such a black and white topic...(and the headache starts...it's not easy being zues)