I think this is an excellent idea. Everyone needs to feel wanted and needed, especially us insecure men! But seriously, is he the type that loves to provide?
I do think poking your head out is fine. Just make sure you have a thick helmet on. Expect to get hit, and if you get kissed, its BIG BONUS.
OK then, wise people... maybe I should do this. Maybe next week. I was thinking about asking for his help on the web site, since it'd probably take him all of 30 minutes.
I'm going to wait because I was sending out my e-cards for St. Pat's yesterday and decided to send him one too. No response, but I also sent it very late in the day. I don't want to seem like I am chasing him around trying to get his attention because that isn't my intent.
Yes, my H loves to feel needed and wanted like everyone does and this has been a sore point with us... he wasn't feeling sure he WAS wanted and needed by me because of our LL differences and other issues we've since gone over. Now he's said for a long time that he knows different... fat lot of good that's doing me these days.
H has never been the overt "provider" type though... and I think this is something he struggles with... I think he may feel like he should be more of that on one level or was feeling pressure there. Maybe I am reading too much into things, I don't know. Entirely possible.
He's not a big acts of service guy-- that's more me-- with the exception of making dinners. Though when he does AOS he makes them really memorable and cool, not little things (like cleaning the whole house top to bottom and making homemade pizzas with 2 varieties of handmade dough to welcome me back from a conference).
He's into grand gestures and little gifts-- though very uneasy taking them from me these days. Tried that for a while and he has accepted them and seemed warmed by them, he feels he does not deserve them and says so. And physical touch... and well, you have to actually spend time together for that to go anywhere. And it was--he was much, much more comfortable with that than he's been in ages-- before the papers and the vanishing act.
I've been hesitant to ask for his help in things because of so much he's said about everything always being about me (something he has since "taken back", but still). I don't want to be always "wanting" something from him. I'd been offering things and just wanting to see how he is and making our conversations more focused on H for a while.
In the past when I have asked him for help it has either worked very well (when my computer died) or I was completely ignored (help shopping for a new monitor).
Depending on where he was at that day. So I guess I'll bring a big heavy helmet.
Good morning, Wonder! Thanks for the interesting sketch of your H. He's rather complex, isn't he? Btw, I think it's good you sent him a St. Patrick's Day card, regardless of his response. Did you have any kind of message on it that you personalized? Just wondering because that was your first communication, right? But I don't think it means anything if you don't hear back.
I think asking him about the website would be a good next move. It is something that you could definitely use help with, and maybe he particularly likes to help when someone really needs it? As opposed to shopping for a new monitor (unless your old one died). I agree with waiting for a while, though, so as not to seem like you sent him the e-card in order to ask a favor.
How to handle the thing about him saying everything is about you? Hmmm. I have an idea, which is to find a way to tell him about the website and that you need some help with it, does he think it's a better idea to get someone to help you or does he think you would be better served by taking a course or going to one of those teaching websites or somehow learning it all yourself?
Then you'd just be asking for his advice on how to get help, and also showing a willingness to tackle it yourself, while at the same time if he's in the right mood that day, he might be really glad to help. And if he doesn't feel like helping, he has the option of turning it down gracefully by saying he thinks one of the other options is better for you (so you'd learn how).
Quote: In the past when I have asked him for help it has either worked very well (when my computer died) or I was completely ignored (help shopping for a new monitor).
Depending on where he was at that day. So I guess I'll bring a big heavy helmet.
Q for you. One thing I learned since DBing is that there is often a second explanation. Not saying you don't know your H, but did the message "I need help" differ in any way from those two exchanges? How did you ask? By email, phone, etc. Did one sound needier than the other? Did one play up his ego (you are so good at this and I could use your expertise) and the other didn't?
Just a few thoughts.
Good luck, I think it's a good idea to ask for help.
Yes. He's a complex guy in some ways. He read my e-card this a.m. (got the notification, not a response from H). It was a cute card with drinking cows and I put just "Have a Guinness for me." This is personal in that we like Guinness and often went out for the holiday with friends and have traveled to Ireland together. But not pushy or M focused. (at least was my take-- if anyone thinks this was too much, let me know).
I did mention to H a while ago that I was having difficulty making a web site... but did not specifically ask advice. He volunteered the info about the template site.
Interesting thought about the approach... yes, my monitor had died and H answered Qs on places to look for a new one, but had no interest in helping out. Yet also seemed annoyed when one of our mutual friends offered the next day to come pick one out with me (and carry it--boy, they are heavy!) saying it was a not a good choice of model I ended up with.
Both times I asked for his advice noting this is his expertise and that I trust his judgment more than other people I know who also could give advice on hardware. I do.
When the computer died, I was a little more distressed (obviously--thought I'd lost all my files), and I'd waited a few days before coming to him, hoping I could fix it myself. Told him that too.
He said-- "in this situation, the best thing you can do is to call me."
I think my overall approach was pretty similar in both cases-- I think it was more a matter of timing. I know what you mean about the approach making a difference though. I can see many places where my approach elicited a certain kind of reaction from H in other areas!
I think it is fine that you sent H a St patty's Day card! I agree with the discussion here that even though we are letting H's expereince life without us, it may be good to have friendly contact every once in a while.
I am having a hard time with this too...how often? just call to say hi?? etc......
I think you should ask for help with the website.....just be sure NOT to get disappointed if he doesn't have time or balks in any way.......NO EXPECTATIONS!!!
keep us posted!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
OK... H called last night when I was out with friends and left a VM that he had a few things he wanted to talk about. I called him back today after I finished up some projects I needed to focus on. Very upbeat-- I've had a great day (incl. a possible new project for my new business).
He seemed pleased to hear my voice and then asked what's up. Said I was returning his call. So he puts me on hold and then comes back and asks if I plan to return the initial D papers.
I told him-- and I said this all very pleasantly and non-confrontationally-- that I'd given it thought and sought advice and have decided I didn't want to actively participate in the D, that it was his process. (This is about being true to my values-- I am not going to stand in his way, but I'm not going to actively take part in it either-- H said he understood this and seemed fine with my rationale.)
The advice I received was I could just ignore those papers for now and wait for things to go ahead to the next step. H says that he gave me the papers personally to avoid having me served because he "didn't want to put me through that" , but that if I don't return them then I will need to be served so his lawyer can move ahead.
I said we could discuss a settlement or he could have one drawn up and I'd have it looked at and make sure it was what we agreed to and then sign it.
H says-- what kind of settlement? So I said, well, something has to be written down, and H says "I don't want anything." I pointed out that he wants to keep his own stuff, and he says "like what?"
I asked how he was doing. He said "OK." I asked if he'd been up to anything exciting, he said "no". Work, he said had been pretty busy, which was good.
H asked how I was and I said things were going well and H's voice seemed a little surprised, but he said "that's good." Asked how work was, and I said I would know next week when the reorganization plan is announced (my job could be cut or hours cut back). I was upbeat overall, H empathized with the layoff plan.
H asked why I was home early and I told him I had the day off and had conference with the new potential client and it had gone well. H was silent.
H says we should close our joint accounts. I asked that he keep open the checking as it how he reimburses me for health insurance costs. H suggested he'd check out whether he could just credit my acct. directly so we can close the accounts.
H seems like he is on the fast track here-- pushing everything forward pretty fast.
H brought up returning papers again-- as if we had not just had this exact conversation. H said he didn't see any point in me being served, and I agreed if I needed to return them, then I would do that-- that perhaps I'd misunderstood or gotten bad advice.
I asked why he'd chosen to give papers to me at my birthday. He did not seem to see this timing as bad at all and said there is never a good time. Then he said he was sorry for the bad timing but it wasn't my actual birthday. Just defended and justified.
I said (also calmly and not emotionally at all-- Azure, I think your light helped me here!) that I had just come from celebrating with coworkers and we had been moving in another direction entirely and had just spent his birthday together, so that it had really surprised me, was very unexpected. H: Silence.
H said he felt he had to do it and there is nothing he can say to me that will make me feel good about it. I responded that I was interested in why he made the choice, not my feelings about it, and mentioned that he had said he wanted me to understand his decision but then had not offered any explanation. H: More silence.
I asked if he felt better now that he had given me the papers, if it helped him (he kind of alluded to this when he gave them to me).
At this point, he says-- "I'm at work". Now, I did not realize he was at work-- usually we would not have this conversation while he was at work. So I said I didn't realize that, why don't I let you go.
He says "Ok, talk to you later." (standard sign-off).
H did not acknowledge my text or e-card. H seemed very focused on D and slightly interested in what I am up to, but also sounded like he expected me to be broken and miserable.
Oh--and I nearly forgot-- H is happy to help me with my web site. He said to send him all my files and he'll take a look at it. He also asked if I had a domain name and offered to help me register one.
I gave him an out-- told him to please let me know if he wasn't comfortable helping out, not to feel like he had to say yes. H said he did not feel he had to say yes.
Oh, Wonder, I wish my light had helped more...but I think you did a FANTASTIC JOB! Many, many extra credit points to you, for keeping your cool. It sounds like you stunned H into silence several times. You achieved that objective of showing him you're not destroyed. It almost sounds like you completely flustered him? You also said what was on your mind and your intentions regarding divorce papers, which was good, clear communication. Let him put the "she's not destroyed" thought in his pipe and smoke it for a while.
My friend said yesterday that she thought as long as WAs are in full guilt mode, they attribute any bad feelings they have to their guilt, rather than other emotions that might be more helpful to working out your sitch (regret or desire, let's say, or even anger). When you show them that you're not destroyed, it takes away some of the tremendous guilt and may let them sort things out differently. I think, therefore, that you made the right move. I for one am interested in what his response might be after a little time goes by.
PS The birthday excuse is lame, I think. These WAS's are so weird!
