Answer to: "why didn't you hear it from ME?"

[ATPeace]

If your sitch is like others on this board, the breakdown of your M is the product of years of resentment. It takes a very long time to undo all that resentment. Your W is not going to instantly come back because you are making changes. I was told the same thing when I was a newbie. A bit hard to swallow, and I am sorry you are going through it, but the changes you make in you will be permanent no matter the outcome. You will emerge a better person when you're done.

RAI

So do you think that one would have to get to the point of selling the house and even divorce ..i guess the answer is yes

[Azzork]

Progress in seeing changes in the relationship.

Where is the detail where youve outlined what "progress" would look like? Are your sights set too high?

[Flight]

Ghost, I don't think there is a set answer. A shock of reality (loss as Sandi calls it) can bring a WS out of the fog, but not always. So can being the better option over time. I guess you look for little signs, which brings me back to my sitch. Maybe my sights are too high given the damage done and that even 8 months is not that long a time. I have only been DB'ing for a little over 2 months. Looking back I really believe I could have saved things in about 4 months had I known about DB.

I have a page of goals with the main ones at the top, but little interim goals underneath. One of my goals was that she would be able to stay in the same room with me when I walked in. She is doing that. Another was that we could sit down to eat together and we do that sometimes. She wouldn't sit and watch TV with me and we just did that last night.

Maybe I am looking for an instant switch to flip because we eat together or sit on the couch together because that is such a change. But then she goes to her room and I feel if I didn't have a reason to talk to her, she would never talk to me again. Hearing her call me by my name instead of "honey" is just a killer. I can't seem to get over it.

[Flight]

Ok, here is an interesting observation. A couple of months ago, this would have sent me into a tailspin. It stung a bit, but I was really more curious about the psychology of it.

W was in the room she stays in now with the door open talking to my D before bed. I was walking to the door and said something to my D. My W had taken off the slacks she had on for work, but still had on a sweater top. She was either in pantyhose or underwear. She never saw me, just heard me. She jumped behind the bed and squatted down in one motion so I wouldn't see her half dressed as if I was a complete stranger. I guess that speaks volumes since actions speak louder than words. I guess as a lot of folks say here, "she doesn't see you as her husband anymore" that instinctual reaction proves it.

It was kind of comical and childish seeing her only from the waist up hiding like that. I didn't let on I saw anything and said I was just letting D know I was going downstairs. I guess I have a lot more work than I thought I did rebuilding a connection.

[Flight]

Can anybody help? Should I put new questions in a new thread?

[Sotto]

Hi Flight, you should stick to a single thread with all your postings until you have 100, then start a new thread. I think you were probably close to the mark when you said she doesn't see you as her H right now and that's why she dived behind the bed.

It doesn't mean that will never change, but I would guess that's where her mind is at just now. Don't give it too much headspace and carry on working on you my friend.

Good luck with things xx

[Flight]

Sandi, RAI, Ghost, Azzork, et al. I am hoping I can round up the group for a specific question.

I was taking my daughter with me on a day trip. I think it made my wife feel lonely or sad about the fact she wouldn't see her and that this is a consequence of our in-house separation. But it is her idea not wanting to do things with us as a family for fear I won't get that we are "separated". My wife and I had a short conversation before I left about why we haven't discussed a budget and a separation agreement. I said that was her job to ask since she knew that is not what I wanted. She said she wasn't wanting to make waves because we have gotten along for weeks now but still wanted to discuss our separation arrangments.

She did not want to leave the house and thought if anyone did, I should leave because I could afford a cheap apartment! But she thinks we should still live together and co-parent our daughter until she is older. She says other people have separate lives, but live in the same house for the kids. She asked how I would afford to live on my own anyway and surmised I was thinking of getting a roommate. When I said yes, she got visibly agitated/scared and asked if I would really have a stranger come live with our daughter. Did that really have her best interest at heart? I wanted to say, "If YOU really have our daughter's best interest at heart, you wouldn't be putting her through this hell and would be working on our marriage". But I didn't. She said I should put my pride aside and do what is the best interest of our daughter. She is assuming I just want to kick her out because she had the emotional affair and I wasn't going to let her have the house.

We talked about the holidays coming up and I told her she could have our daughter for Thanksgving and I would take her for Christmas. She again got agitated and said, "But she would want us both to be with her on the holidays! She wants a mommy and daddy". I did say this time, "Well, that is one of the many consequences of the divorce you want". So she doesn't want to come with us on a day trip or to go to the movies together, but because the holiday season is so important to her I am supposed to do all that with her as a family?

She started to vent again about the list of hurts I inflicted on her, this time mostly that I didn't get a better job so she didn't have to work. I let her talk and then asked her how that made her feel. I validated her feelings and let her know I understood how sad that must have made her. Of course this made for a much more pleasant interaction for her. I mentioned that I got one job offer, but it would mean moving out of state. She then asked where it was because she would quit her job and move with me! That really confused me. She was wondering if I did have to move, if it would be to a place she would like living. I can't help but feel she is waiting for something to happen or at least questioning her choices. If she did this, she would quite her job and be completely dependent on me until she found a new job (or was a stay at home mome). Is she wanting her cake and to eat it too?

During the road trip, I texted my wife to say how talkative my daughter was and wouldn't stop asking questions as if she was 4 instead of 11. My wife replied "It shows she's happy though. We should ensure she always stays that way!" That was a clear reference to our earlier conversation letting me know that I should do things my wife's way because that was in the best interest of our daughter. And again, I thought to myself the best interest of our daughter would be to keep the family together.

I want to do the right thing. Is my wife guilting me into doing what SHE thinks is best? I am wanting to give her a little "tough love" and feel like the in-house separation is actually worse for our daughter than if we just get this over with. I am fully prepared to end the relationship at this point, but am still willing to keep trying if she is having second thoughts. I also can't help but feel that my wife really wouldn't want to move out. On the one hand I want to enforce a separate holiday schedule, but of course want to make sure I don't do that at the expense of our daughter. Our older kids would be involved too as they would come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner. On the other side of the coin, holiday time and the holiday spirit could be a chance to bond. Help me. I'm confused. Why is my wife giving me what I perceive as mixed messages and should I stand my ground and insist on separate holiday arrangements? I do not want her to use me for the holidays if that is her plan.

[Flight]

Anyone?

[otw]

I am in the beginning of working on a separation agreement. I am waiting on W to deliver to me what she believes she will want to include in it. I have not done anything on this and just waiting. I did ask her about it and told her it should get done because it has gone too long. I also said other things that were setting some boundaries. I still do not want this, but at the point i am is that i am getting tired of being taken advantage of and needed her to know it is not ok anymore. I have informed her my intentions about not leaving the house and pending what we work out i will try to keep it for the sake of the children.
So i guess my advice is be strong in what you feel you want and know is right, but be empathetic to her and fair.

Wish i could give more as i am lost also.

[Flight]

Hard to get through some days.