Alligator Love

[JulieH]

Hi zues

I'm a big fan too .

And i hear you. If someone is not playing fairly, the best thing to do is to just stop playing. It's a waste to argue and what else can you do but wall off her critisism?
Especially at this point.

Why be bogged down with the whys of their actions? (something I recognize is unhealthy but personally get consumed with). I have to say though, when you help me understand what's going on in my husbands mind, it makes me feel more at peace. It feels better for me to have empathy then anger. It also helps me me to empathize when I view him as a person with his own perception as opposed to someone that is merely a force of opposition.

[Painter]

The aftermath:I heard through the kids that STBX didn't approve. She didn't think D4 should've been dropped off with shorts too big (D4 told me they stayed up just fine though). She didn't think the book I was reading them was age appropriate (they love it though). And so on. And she continues to give me 30 second mini-lectures when I pick up the kids about how to parent them, although she's clearly making an effort to only say what she feels is critical and let me 'learn from my own mistakes' as she says sometimes.

I have a huge problem with this. It's totally inappropriate behavior by your Ex to tell the children she disapproves of your decisions, and I think you should send an e-mail and suggest a co-parenting class so she can learn appropriate ways to deal with her feelings about what you do or don't do. She is putting the kids in the middle and making them feel like they have to defend one parent from the other. It's extremely (and typically) damaging to them and I would nip it in the bud.

If she continues to do this, it could be defined as parental alienation, which is beginning to be sufficient to lose custody over. All divorced parents should be familiar with the term and its implications.

Also, may I ask why you are not going for 50/50 custody? The kids have been used to living with you all the time, right?

I'd also stop by the school with a big smile to make sure they have your info so they can contact you if they have any questions, and that they will send you all paperwork that goes out.

Ex is not the gatekeeper to your children or their schools. They are your children just as much as hers.

She does not get to decide what the standard for good parenting is. If she disagrees with what you do, she needs to learn to bite her tongue, unless she thinks you are putting them in direct danger.

*Getting off my soap box*

[Zues126]

Hey Painter,

I am going for 50/50...however there are some hills to climb legally. Basically due to D4's age and S11's difficulty adjusting she's making the case it's best for them to stay with her more during the school year. Of course my attitude is that it was her decision that led to this 'adjusting'...but that doesn't matter in court, all that matters is what's best for the kids. I currently have 5/14 nights (up from 4 recently), and am vying for 6/14 for this school year with the intent to be 7/14 once D4 becomes D5 and is in kindergarten.

As for her badmouthing me to the kids, it's really not much...but it does happen. D8 told me "Mom thinks we're too young for this book". When I told S11 about having to use a key ring to clip up D4's pants he said "I heard", when I said "really?" he said "yeah, mom didn't think she should've been in school like that". So I'm not making it up...but I feel I get to model for my kids how to lead on even when people are throwing stones at you. I try not to talk bad about her, the worst thing that ever happens is sometimes I take the attitude of "I'm not really worried about what mom thinks". Granted, not ideal, but I am not going to try to change STBX. She can do her thing. She's a good mom, we're not poisonous towards each other (that I know of), and we both love the kids enough to try our best to keep it healthy for them. So while it's not perfect it's not terrible.

Sunny, Julie, both good points. Julie, I agree it might make sense to humanize your ex to find compassion. I have done that to an extent. Definitely a good point to consider.

Sunny, I'm sorry to hear about the falling out. I'd love to hear more about what happened if you're up for it. If you need someone to drive to FL and beat someone with a pet alligator let me know

Anyway, I agree with what you're saying in theory. I talked to my best friend about it...both he and I are wired the same. We're so hard on ourselves that we drive about 10 times harder than anyone else, from sun up to sun down, we push to overachieve...then if people throw stones at us they can go to hell. It's like a covert contract- "I'll work to the bone to do everything I can, in exchange you be appreciative and supportive not critical". Most people aren't very supportive, most people are very diminishing, critical, dismissive, and insensitive...which is why we get along with each other and why we don't have a lot of close friends. I can grow and manage this part of my personality, but I am who I am. All I know is that I don't expect anyone to match my intensity or performance or effort, I can accept that most people can't bring what I bring...all I ask is that they say 'thank you' for what I do and don't sit there giving 25% of what I give and have the audacity to be critical about what I'm doing when I'm the one battling in the ring. And I know "covert contracts" are a no-no, so I'm making a point to make this an outward and verbalized boundary so there are no resentments or misunderstandings. I'm with Teddy R on this one:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

[Ancaire]

Sunny, I'm sorry to hear about the falling out. I'd love to hear more about what happened if you're up for it. If you need someone to drive to FL and beat someone with a pet alligator let me know

Yeah! I wasn't sure if you'd seen my guilty pleasure pet alligator story or not. Too funny, right? I've got more tales from FL! I really think I should move there....get to see it all first-hand. Not much holding me back, now.

[Painter]

Did she get the court to agree to that custody setup? Not a father-friendly state?

The problem isn't really how this backtalking impacts you, but how it impacts the kids over time. You will probably not get an accurate representation from them of everything that was said. They will downplay it to you, or possibly use it for attention.

I've seen this exact scenario impact hundreds of divorced families over years. And I know how much you will hate it when your in-a-few-years teen daughters talk down to you in Ex's voice... Your reply to them already indicates that this is a problem, IMO.

She's probably not going to listen to you, but a co-parenting class has been very helpful to many. It's something about when it comes from a counselor...

[Ancaire]

Really good advice, Painter. Part of my reason for fighting so hard to stay M, is because of the collateral damage to the kids...and mine are adults and hurting like crazy! I cannot imagine hand-offs...must be a unique torture for all concerned.

[SunnyB]

Sunny, I'm sorry to hear about the falling out. I'd love to hear more about what happened if you're up for it. If you need someone to drive to FL and beat someone with a pet alligator let me know

Thanks, Zues, this made my day. Thank you for offering to let me vent, I don't know that there's a lot to tell. It was a guy that I had been texting, I thought we were having some lighthearted fun, although I had been rather forthcoming about some things. Yesterday it all exploded in a rather dramatic way, and it unbelievably all seems to boil down to a vocabulary issue. He found a couple of words I used offensive, although for the life of me I can't understand why. I went back and read that text a half dozen times trying to figure out what I'd done wrong and just never saw it. He's a native English speaker, too, so there's no excuse there. He wasn't objecting to a general tone, but to two specific words, which are just regular, ordinary, everyday English words. I apologized to him, tried to explain myself, but in the end it's done. There's no history there to glue it together. So, now he just thinks I'm a horrible person. Join the club. (Guess I did vent after all.)

Judy, come on down. There are enough alligators to go around.

BTW, Zues, I've deliberately stayed out of the parenting fumble discussion. I can read it a few ways, and in the end I have no doubt you'll sort through all the advice and find what's right for you.

[Ginger1]

Zues, you had said

"But I also know what I expect others to bring, and appreciation instead of criticism is the price of admission."

You have sort of contradicted yourself a few times. You also said :

I don't really show my appreciation for her, any more than she shows her appreciation for what I do.

And you said you do appreciate her, but in the same breath you only show it as much as she does, and in your opinion, she doesn't.

Someone has to be the catalyst in showing mutual appreciation and understanding. Ill give you a bit of a personal example.

As you know, my ex an have been divorced/separated for a long time and I am the primary care giver. I do it all, make the money, do the school stuff, doctors, dentist, activities, pay the joint bills (with his half of the money). I preface what I am to say with that, because between the 2 of us, there is no man makes the money, woman cares for the house and child role.

I have gotten zero appreciation or thank you's over the years. Nothing. Probably only criticism from him. meanwhile, whenever he has a responsibility, he usually messes it up. Unless it's a big deal, I don't confront. And when I do, I do it with understanding and explanation.

I made a promise to myself that even if I don't get appreciation, and only criticism, or abosultely nothing, I would still put forth my appreciation when it is warranted. Even if I don't get it back.

Finally, after 7 years I asked him for some schedule switches and explained why. When he made it happen, I thanked him for his flexibility. He finally said " I appreciate all you do for D8"

It meant a lot to hear that from him. And I believe my appreciation towards him when he does deserve it, whether or not I got it back from him, fostered that statement.

I am awfully wordy here, but someone has to be the catalyst. You get back what you put out there. It's hard in the beginning because feelings are raw. Criticism stinks, but is sometimes vital, it's what we learn from, but I agree it needs to be constructive. And in the stage she is in, she may not be ready. I know your method is to get rid of her like cancer because she made you feel less than good and unappreciated. But perhaps putting out there what you want to get back might go a long way.

[Ginger1]

......and for the record, I am not saying you messed up like my ex does. He just puts himself first all the time. You had a legit bad morning. I had one today and I didn't even handle it so good. It happens.

You can indeed say " I understand you didn't approve of so and so, but I appreciate it if we could discuss this and leave the kids out of it, as it is an adult conversation."

Those things are certainly acceptable to say and may find she didn't even realize what she did was wrong. Try this before you write her off like cancer:)

[Painter]

Really good advice, Painter. Part of my reason for fighting so hard to stay M, is because of the collateral damage to the kids...and mine are adults and hurting like crazy! I cannot imagine hand-offs...must be a unique torture for all concerned.

I lived with this for well over a decade. I'll never forget when my stepchildren came back from their mother's and told us how they excitedly had told her on arrival that we had been on such a fun trip, and her response was an agitated: "He took you out of state??!!" and went on to totally crush their joy and make them feel like they had been in actual danger on a road trip with their father and his family.

It's incredibly damaging to the kids. It may seem like small stuff to us, but it isn't to them.