Hello, I'm sure most new people start this way, but I never thought I'd be posting on a divorce forum.
My story is looooong, oh so long. But I feel that time is of the essence here as I feel I lose ground by the day, so I will try to nutshell this as much as I can.
Three weeks ago today, I learned that my husband of 22 years is having an affair with a coworker. Two days after that, he was fired from his job, in part because of said affair (but also several other factors). I did not initiate a confession to me, I basically caught him.
We had been on a family vacation, he flew home a day early because we suspected he was about to be fired and he had an appointment with his attorney. That night he was supposedly having dinner with a platonic friend, then he texted me he was tired and headed home. I texted him to ask how things were, and he didn't answer. Texted an hour later and he didn't answer then either. Long story short, four hours later I had sent 7 texts and called him twice without a response. At 1:30 am I finally texted saying, "Look, I can only think of 3 scenarios here and none are good. Either you're out drinking, you've been in an accident, or you're with someone." Finally he texted back saying everything was fine, please calm down, he had gotten home and fallen asleep on the couch and had been sleeping for the past couple of hours. Problem was, I recently installed some home automation stuff (door sensors, cameras, presence sensors for cars) and knew he was lying. I hadn't installed the stuff to catch him - I hadn't even suspected him!
Anyway, I told him I knew he was lying, and asked if he was with someone. He was quiet for a moment and then just said yes quietly. The rest of the conversation is a bit of a blur, but basically I learned that it was with a beautiful young coworker of his. I asked him if he was leaving me and I can't remember what he said. I think he said "No. I don't know." After a few more minutes of conversation with me crying, I felt there was nothing left to be said right then. I said "I hope she's worth it" and hung up on him. I somehow believed he would call me back or at least text frantically. He sent just two short texts, saying something like he was sorry he wasn't the man I thought he was, that he is a very messed up, flawed person.
My heart sank.
The next day I tried to act normally in front of my 16 and 19 year old kids as we packed up the car, ate at the cafe we traditionally eat at every summer (we've been vacationing at the same spot for 15 years) and drove the 5 1/2 hours home. Absolute worst day of my life. Up to that point.
When I got home, the talking began, and it hasn't stopped. The things I have learned have ripped me apart. I first learned that my husband is a chronic liar. Every single thing I asked, I learned I had to ask it three times over a day or two to get the whole truth. When I got home that night, I quickly learned what I was already beginning to suspect - that this wasn't just a one-night stand or a casual fling. Despite being caught, he had stayed the night and into the next day, hanging out with her, getting coffee, strolling through the city. He didn't come home until the afternoon.
First he told me the affair started on July 3rd, about two months earlier. The more we talked the more I realized that I was in trouble - he intended to leave me for her. I couldn't understand it. We talked and cried the rest of the weekend. I forced myself to ask questions about their relationship in an effort to understand what was happening. It was so excruciating. We were both upset and it was clear that he was confused, scared and extremely mixed up. He said he knew how difficult everything had to be for me but asked if I could do the impossible and give him just a little time to prepare for the next day. I'd forgotten - he was probably about to lose his job. Until Friday night, that had been the worst news I could imagine. Somehow we agreed to just concentrate on whatever lay ahead for him at work the next day.
The next day, Monday, he hugged me goodbye and went to work. I got up and did something I have never done in my life. I sat down to think and noticed his iPad on the table. I have never once invaded his privacy, but I picked it up and guessed his password on the first try. He doesn't use the iPad that much and is generally one to delete old emails, texts, etc. Nevertheless, there was enough there to make me cry. Nothing that contradicted anything he had already confessed to me, but it filled in blanks in a terrible way. I saw one lone text from the woman that said "How are you my love?" It was dated July 11th. I wondered how they had gone from starting up on July 3rd to "my love" a week later. I saw that they had been ordering takeout from Seamless.com and had ordered pizza the Friday night I caught him. Pizza on Friday night has always been a tradition in our family. I saw from his browser history that he had been searching for divorce lawyers as early as August 6th, and it looked as though he found one. I saw that he looked at two books on divorce on Amazon. And I saw that he had subscribed to a saved search for apartments in the city. He had received on that same Monday morning - a place in Chelsea - and he'd opened the email.
I went upstairs to take a shower in a total daze. Before I could get in, he texted me - "They fired me." I asked what their reasoning had been. There were a litany of things - inappropriate relationships with women, being disrespectful, and a bunch of other things. Basically, conduct unbecoming to his position in the company. I took note that inappropriate relationships with women was first on the list.
After a couple of hours of him wandering around in the city, he finally came home. We sat down and it was then that I learned even more. The relationship with the OW had not been since July; it had started in March. Six months. There had been another woman, someone that worked for him as an assistant for 7 years but left a couple of years ago. Apparently that had really been more of the typical fling, and probably more of an "emotional affair" as they commiserated about family problems.
More talking. More crying. And still I waited for him to come to his senses, to plead with me to forgive him. It didn't happen. He loves this woman.
My life has been an absolute roller coaster of pain ever since. Through many, many, MANY hours of conversation between him and me, we have both learned so very much. For that, I am grateful. But still terrified. I have been through the gamut of emotions, in no small part because I kept learning new things. At first I dismissed everything as a midlife crisis for him. I don't doubt that comes into play in some ways. However, there are so many other factors.
He was utterly convinced that he loves this woman, and that he wanted to marry her. However, over the past three weeks lots of things have changed. He has admitted that there are lots of things about her that concern him. He seems to actually know rather little about her or how she feels about things that I'd think would matter if you wanted to marry someone. There is a 20 year age difference between them, which scares him. And he says he still loves me and doesn't know if he can live without me. He said those things during the first week.
We have actually been communicating more these past weeks than in our entire marriage, and more honest and stripped down. He acknowledges that he has been ripped down to the studs - he has disgraced himself, has lost his job in a humiliating way (he was general counsel of a big company), we are facing financial ruin, he is horrified at the person he has become. We have both earnestly been seeking answers and help in every way we know how - talking to each other, reading books, articles, etc. He began therapy last week with an excellent therapist whom he saw five years ago that really helped him (as I now know, due to the earlier brief affair he had). I believe this therapist is very good for him. I just began seeing one for my own sanity, and yesterday we started with a marriage counselor.
It was so hard for me to understand how this woman got hold in our lives, how he could possibly be thinking of leaving me, ripping our family apart, for a woman he's only been seeing for 6 months, no matter how intensely. First I read, and he also confirmed the same thing - that it wasn't that he was choosing between two women, necessarily. He felt he was choosing between two paths - two possible new futures. And he was terrified of making a mistake. Over the past week or so, though, he has come to a different conclusion, or a more specific one. He says he realizes more and more it is less about the OW. He just this week has come to admit that he honestly doesn't believe that relationship will or would last, even if he leaves me for her. He says he sees the pitfalls and he's read the statistics and he's no dummy. The relationship was fueled nicely while it was a nice secret fantasy bubble, and while he still had his job which paid extremely well. But now that he has been fired, now that he is not seeing her every day, now that he has been forced to look at the reality of it - I think, and he has pretty much agreed, that the "halo effect" is dissipating.
So what he is trying to decide is whether our marriage is salvageable. I have learned that he "stepped out" (as he calls it) a few other times in the course of our marriage, to varying degrees (all very casual and not all were actual sex). Painfully, I learned that soon after we were married, he had what in many ways was similar to the current affair, except that they never actually did anything. He said the girl was very similar in personality to the one he is seeing now. I asked him why it never went further, and he admitted it was because she stopped it. She was about to become engaged and she had the balls to make a decision. He said he is desperate to understand why he has been like this when he obviously loves me and our marriage has always been considered pretty good for the most part.
There is so, so much more but I've probably broken all kinds of first post rules by this lengthy introduction. I have lots of theories on what has gone wrong, and what needs to be fixed, but no idea how to fix it. I am about halfway through the DB book and find it very helpful, but I also feel like I'm not quite sure how to apply it to my situation.
My first worry is how to handle him and how to handle myself. I believe a great many of our marriage problems stem from the fact that I lost respect for myself over the years, and thus he did as well. The women that seem to turn his eye are those with a bit of an edge. At first we characterized them as "type A" or women who could keep him on his toes, but that's too superficial and sounds bitchy. He doesn't like bitchy. I think it's about self-respect - they have it, and I lost mine a long time ago. I think he basically ended up doing a lot of the things he did because, well, he could. I didn't put my foot down, I didn't tell him to *f* himself if he stepped out of line. I am not a meek person, but I became a rather passive person and I didn't love myself enough to not take crap.
So here I am. Deep in my heart, I believe this marriage is salvageable. I feel I can see where we went wrong. I think the OW is a symptom of everything and I genuinely think it would be the worst mistake he ever made if he ran off with her. And honestly, I think it would be an enormous mistake for the OW, too. But I don't know what steps to take next. I have already made countless, countless mistakes. Within the first few days I told him he had two days to break it off with her. Yeah, right.
The loss of his job and his income have severely impacted our decision making. We will likely have to sell our house. We don't really have the money to support a second living quarters, no matter how small. We are desperately trying to not have to let our children know what is happening any more than absolutely necessary. Our daughter is back at college but our son is home. He has already heard one fight (we almost never fight, but I screamed my heart out at him a week ago). There just isn't much info out there for a situation like ours, where neither spouse is really a jerk, where they are trying to maybe work things out, but he is not yet willing to end the affair. Lots of what I have read has said to give him the space he needs to work things through in his head, and to keep him in the home (home based advantage, I guess). And honestly? I really, really don't want him to leave. For practical reasons as well as emotional.
But I am struggling with my self-respect. I feel like I'm just hanging around, waiting to be told whether or not I've made the cut or not. I feel like I'm just repeating a pattern where I'm allowing him to think I'm a sure thing, I'll always be here. Other books like on tough love advocate being loving, telling him I love him and want our marriage to work, but that he needs to be shown the door while he figures things out. I'm all for showing a little strength, but with all the conflicting bits of opinions, I'm lost.
I'm sorry so long. That was almost therapeutic to me. As I said, there is so much more. Right now it looks like he's the big jerk, but there are so many extenuating circumstances - this isn't cut and dried cheating. So if I sound unreasonably reasonable about the whole thing, that's why.
Thanks for listening.
Lisa
Last edited by Cristy; 09/14/1508:06 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other authors/books
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
this sounds so hard. I'm really sorry this has happened for you.
The past few days sound really really intense for you. It is good that you're talking. But perhaps you need to put some solid activities in place for you to rest, to take care of yourself, to nourish and cherish yourself. Whatever happens, you're going to need to be super strong over the next few months and years. Nothing will ever be the same again, and that's going to take a huge amount of getting used to.
Is there anything you have planned for today or tomorrow that isn't about fixing this situation, but is about taking care of yourself?
Lisa, I'm in the same situation. It's awful, Isn't it? I've always trusted my husband. Even when people pointed out that some of his controlling behaviors were putting me at risk (like opening a private bank account, forcing me to have to ask for money) I always believed he was doing what was best for my family.
Now I have no money of my own, there are other women, and I NEED a lawyer. I set down one boundary today, told him I was moving his things out of master bedroom. He left me....told me so via a text saying, "I'm gone."
Falling apart on my end. He used to be kind, gentle, caring. I don't even know him anymore. He doesn't want to work on marriage. He will be happy once he gets rid of me. Another woman helped him see that.
I keep praying for peace, but I really want to go to sleep and never wake up from this nightmare.
There is so much more....just wanted to let you know I feel your pain.
Thank you both. Jenny, the first two weeks I could barely eat a thing. I have been doing everything I can, though, to nourish my soul and force myself to get moving. To the extent I can, I've been trying to keep moving. Even he and I together have done some reasonably "normal" things, like taking our son to a movie, running some errands together, etc. And I've been reading, reading, reading - anything to improve myself, my mood, heal my heart.
My problem now is that I truly need advice on what I'm supposed to be doing.
I've been reading through some of the resources listed in Cadet's post. The one I am finding most helpful is "For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife". This is the kind of information I feel I really need help with right now - is there a similar post for a LBW with a Wayward Husband? Some of the article applies nicely to my situation, while I believe others are different due to gender differences and how things are generally handled.
For instance, H is currently sleeping in our (large) bed, at my request. He has asked me all along what I wanted him to do, where I wanted him to sleep. At first we were having him pretend to fall asleep on the couch, but last week our son heard us fighting and asked me the next morning why I was yelling at dad. He looked stricken. Together we told him that the stress of dad losing his job was going to make us both emotional at times, and sometimes we might fight, but that we loved him and not to worry. After that, I told H to come back to the bedroom.
The current situation is that we are civil, even somewhat loving. There is just the simple matter of him not knowing whether he wants to remain married or not. Oh yeah, that. At first it was simply about the affair and his refusal to end it because he thought he wanted to leave me for her. Now it has shifted to where I think he is really just weighing the value of our marriage.
Still, though, his affair is continuing. Although they don't get to see each other a tiny fraction of what they had been used to, they do continue to communicate. I know they text regularly, if not constantly. Because he worked in the city, and because he is not meeting with several headhunters and networking with other people each week, he heads into the city semi-regularly. And I know that he does, if he gets the chance, goes to see her and they will go out like a date.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but early on I asked him if he could at least do me the courtesy of not sleeping with her while we were figuring this stuff out. As recently as yesterday he told me that he has upheld that promise. I am well aware that he is a masterful liar now, so who knows, but in reality I am aware of how much time he has been able to spend there. He has been painfully honest about a great many other things (he says he is determined to turn over a new leaf as far as character and integrity, no matter how things end up), so I am inclined to believe he has not had sex with her since this all blew up.
Either way, though - knowing that my husband has a girlfriend, and allowing it to continue in any capacity at all without taking some kind of stand, is absolutely messing with my head. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm trying to give him his space and all that, but it's making me feel like a desperate doormat ... "Pick me! Pick me!" Ugh.
I have noticed what was mentioned in that Wandering Wife post to be true of him as well - the addiction to the feeling of being with the OW. He and I have several times made great strides (well, I thought - now I know not to believe words) in sorting things out. And then he goes into the city for a couple of interviews, and then he will somewhat guiltily but mostly flatly tell me that he is going to be meeting her for a while. He will tell me it's not alone, he is meeting her and a friend for drinks, blah blah. That is his way of being up front and communicative with me. I try not to react too much, but it's almost impossible. Once he gets in her presence, it's like he is bewitched. This woman is 20 years younger, and she is stunning. Like, model beautiful. I honestly think a part of him can't believe he landed someone so hot. And he thinks she's a marvelous human being as well.
What am I to do with that? Just allow my husband to date while he figures things out?
A few days ago I had my own epiphany and decided that yes, even though I will feel like I'm dying, I can survive without him. That made me slightly less afraid. And I'm to the point where I'm just sick of this so-called indecision. But I have read two different approaches to handling my situation - mostly, do I just pull back emotionally and let him remain here at home, or do I actually kick him out and lose the "home advantage"?
Even today - he had a couple of meetings in the city. He told me last thing last night that no, he did not have plans to see the OW today. Careful choice of words, mind you. He didn't say he WOULDN'T see her. His last appointment was at 3:00 with someone. He sent me a text about 20 minutes ago updating me about the latest info from his employment attorney who is dealing with his separation from his job. That was it - nothing about coming home as planned, nothing. The plan was that we would be making homemade pizza tonight. I am fully prepared for him to confess any minute now that he is going to see the OW after all. If that happens, he will not be home until anytime from 9:00 to midnight. And I will have to lie once more to our son to cover for him.
How did I get here? One month ago I was totally deluded into thinking my marriage was pretty good.
Lisa - I have some thoughts for you but I don't have time to post a lot right now.
But I want to say two things: 1) you cannot control him. The more limits you ask for, the more you beg and ask him to end it, the more he's going to keep doing it. You have to let him go.
BUT
2) read the boundary thread. Let him understand that his actions have consequences. You can't wait around as plan B. That's not fair to you. You aren't a fallback option just standing around waiting for him to come home. So read that thread.
Oh Judy, my heart breaks for you, too. I'm truly sorry. Did he say "I'm gone" in response to your moving his things out of the bedroom?
I have been absolutely stunned by the realization that my husband is not the man I thought he was. In fairness, I still think he is a good person deep down, but I had put him on a pedestal in so many ways. He is a flawed human being like all of us. I trusted him, and I believed in him, no questions asked. I believed so deeply in him that even in the face of very fishy sounding situations, I defended him, wholeheartedly believing that his character would simply never allow him to cheat. I forgot that he was a man and that he was human.
I am very, very sorry for anyone whose spouse adds being a total jerk on top of mountain of pain. I know that my husband can sometimes lash out very angrily, but up until recently I would think him completely incapable of being vindictive or cruel. I still somewhat believe that, but I will never again say never about anything. There are so many things I have learned that I wouldn't have thought possible in a million years. So I am going to vow to be smarter and less blindly trusting than I used to be.
What you're supposed to be doing is nothing just yet. Anything you do now would be completely reactive to the emotions you're feeling. I understand why it doesn't feel good, but trying to enforce boundaries when you are this wounded will result in pressure, control, ultimatums, and revenge.
There is no easy button. It is a long process. Not all M's are saved. Some take years. Even if he is willing to truly recommit to the M at some point it takes many months if not years to gradually let go of the pain, and to rebuild into something that feels safe and fulfilling. The reality is that you have a long road ahead.
Many people do something hoping it will change how they feel. It really won't. Wherever you go, there you are. People that burn bridges for 'closure', medicate somehow, or just flip flop all over trying to shake things up...they just end up feeling and acting crazy. This rarely helps.
So for now I'd recommend holding your horses. This is a long road. There is no reason to do anything today, and many reasons not to. Maybe commit to a 30-90 day period of not making any decisions, and say you will reevaluate at that point. During that time you can pray, meditate, post, read, and grieve. Just knowing you don't need to figure it all out (and can't) can be a relief, and sometimes not doing anything destructive is a big win.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I kept asking my husband for space and time to wrap my mind around all the changes...he honored neither request. I decided I just couldn't deal with not being able to have time to grieve or move on, and the shocks just kept coming....not just one OW, but several!
I finally lost it last night and yelled at him, I admit to some name calling. He finally left me alone. Today, I decide I'm no longer going to be a doormat. I have no interest in letting him walk all over me while he actively pursues his new life. Told him I was moving his things out of the master bedroom. That is when I got the short but sweet "I'm gone" text. 20 years, just like that.
I've been crying a lot today - but at least I finally have privacy to do it in. He may not be back....I decided that I will handle that. Much better than the emotional torture he's been putting me through.
This is your choice, but if you think you will be just fine with or without him, tell him you have no interest in being in an open marriage. Make him decide. Best advice I got. :-)
Thank you, Azzork - yes, I think that is where I have come. Although I am scared, my sense of self-preservation is proving to be much stronger than I ever would have believed. I have read all the things about letting him go, giving him the freedom to choose what he wants, and giving myself the freedom to choose as well. For my own self-respect, I feel I need to make a move.
I guess I need help deciding what move that will be. Do I ask him to leave? Do I simply move him in the other room? I need to take a stance so he sees I'm not simply waiting around hoping to be chosen. And my own mindset has gotten to the point where I'm almost not faking that - I'm really fed up with this notion that he could believe somehow I'm not good enough. I would like to make a power play, but given our odd circumstances (no money, no resources, trying to hide it from kids unless absolutely essential, and he's truly not being a jerk - I think he is really on the cusp of dropping the OW. I just don't think that means he definitely wants to stay in the marriage.)
I will go read all the threads mentioned.
Oddly enough, he just texted me again that he is just wrapping up with that 3:00 appointment (I know the woman he is with - good friend, totally platonic, and helping him with some job stuff, so it's plausible that they have been chatting for three hours). He has not yet said he is on the train home though, so I will wait for what he does rather than what he says.
