So...I started reading SSM last week on the advice of some of the folks from a couple of the Yahoo groups to which I am subscribed. I read the first two chapters and I am hooked. I am the LD spouse to a T. As this is the first book I have ever read on this topic that directly speaks to me and my situation, I plan on reading the rest and putting it to work.
However, I have a question. How can I get past DH's comments regarding sex? For example, tonight I was cleaning the kitchen after dinner and said to DH..."I have come to a conclusion..." then paused at which time he said "that you don't want to have sex anymore". I let the comment go instead of starting a raging arguement (which I would have done in the past) and finished my comment (which had nothing to do with sex or our relationship).
This is completely typical of comments that DH makes out of the blue. We can be having a talk about anything and he will turn it into something about how I dislike sex, how come we never have sex anymore etc etc.
We tried a sex therapist last summer, it did not help. Short of sharing the book with him, which I am loathe to do at this point because I do not yet have a plan in place, is there anything I can do when he shoots another one of his verbal arrows towards me?
A bit more background information would be helpful. For instance, how long have you been married, how long SSM, etc. It sounds to me like he very much wants to discuss the SSM thing, but doesn't know how to approach the subject diplomatically. He very likely has no idea how to verbalize what he's feeling, aside from "hey, I'm starving here!" I know that was my case. Until I read SSM, I "knew" all that stuff (i.e. how it wasn't just SEX I was longing for, but also the closeness and LOVE ). I think it's fantastic that you're reading this book, it says great things about your chances for creating a happier marriage for the two of you! I really would suggest you share the book with him right away.. perhaps get a second copy of it. If you both read it together (separately, but together), it should open up whole evenings of meaningful discussion between the two of you. He will be very grateful, and it might be a real life-saver in your R.
Background info: H and I have been married for six months. We met in February 2000, officially engaged January 2002, married in September 2003.
We've been SSM for as long as I can remember. When we first started seeing each other, everything was fine but we had our SSM problems from before we were even engaged.
The reason that I am hesitating at sharing the book with him at this stage is that he has been a witness to my many attempts at trying to reignite my stale libido. Nothing I have tried has worked so far, admittedly I have given most things a half hearted try at best because they did not speak to my situation like this book does. From past experience I know that any attempt that I make to share with him that I am trying something different will be met with more aspersions, e.g., "You'll never change", "You hate sex, just admit it", etc etc. But if the veterans here think that sharing the book is the right thing to do, then I'm all for it. He will probably not read it because it was written by a woman and he thinks that all women think alike (i.e., like his best friend's GF who gave him sex once every few months at best for the seven years they dated) so it may be a hopeless cause but I'm willing to try anything.
Oh, heck... I was afraid of this. From your opening post I thought you might be a young newlywed, but I held back because if I was wrong it'd be embarassing for me, and maybe offensive for you. That being said, I take back my advice - sharing the book might not be a great thing at this stage.
Forgive me, I've been married 25 years, 3 kids (20, 18 and 12) and have been SSM for a VERY long time. It kind of colors your outlook.
For him, I think maybe he's wondering if he got a bum deal, although if the SSM problems began before marriage, or even before engagement, then he maybe had his eyes open wider than I did. For me, the sex thing seemed to change immediately after the wedding day, and it was like day... and night.
I do think you might get into a discussion with him, and let him know that his barbs do hurt, and maybe the two of you could have a non-blaming talk about a subject that is obviously very important to both of you. Maybe he doesn't know (or trust) that it's just as important to you as it is to him. Ask him if he's willing to work together with you on solutions. Let him know that you aren't asking him to live like a monk (and prove it).
All in all, you may also have to be willing to entertain the possibility that it isn't going to work out. Please DON'T have any kids until you get this sorted out. I'm praying for you!
Quote: do not yet have a plan in place, is there anything I can do when he shoots another one of his verbal arrows towards me?
Cattlekid,
From my perspective he will probably not stop with the barbs to much until you have proven yourself that you want to get this issue licked<sorry no pun intended>. My advice would jump in and go for it. You really having nothing to lose.
The reason he is throwing the barbs out there is because he is hurting very badly. It is he way of dealing with the pain if he can hurt you a little first then it helps to deal with the lose that he is feeling.
What you have written sounds a lot like me when everything was so very bad in my R. I would say mean things first so that my W KNEW that I WAS NOT HAPPY. It was also a way for me to keep reminding myself that wow this sucks but maybe if I say this like this maybe she will get it.
Obviously those things don't work in a R. In your R one of you needs to swollow there pride and get to work. That is really what it all boils down to. We always ask ourselves why do I have to be the one to give in and try to change. I know I did. I then realized that if I didn't do it then who was going to. Michele says in her books that if one person changes the other person has to. It is so very true. So make a plan. Get some goals and do it pretty soon when you start to change the way you are you H will change and it will be amazing what he will do for you once the ball starts rolling.
CattleKid: You are right at the beginning of your M and decisions you take now will have a bigger impact on your H's life (and hence your life) than you can ever imagine. The SSM book has two important messages. "What you are doing now is not working so DO THE OPPOSITE" and “JUST DO IT” Sorry to shout but they are just soooo important. I’m speaking now as an HD husband with 22 years of SSM experience. You must look upon sex as you would the laundry – you don’t want to do it but you know you have to. If you “just do it” say twice a week, your husband will feel like a million dollars and in return he will treat you better than in your wildest dreams. I predict that after a while you will start to enjoy it too because it will no longer be such a big deal. The alternative if you choose to do nothing is that your husband will think about sex 100% of the time, he will argue about it with you constantly, will spend many sleepless nights feeling utterly rejected and will look at every woman he passes in the street and wonder what life would be like with her… Eventually he could meet someone on the same wavelength as himself and you will find yourself buying a copy of Divorce Busting. You are lucky that you are in the early stages, have taken the initiative to read SSM and have the opportunity to create a great marriage and life for yourself. I wish you all the best for the future, SD
Hey cattlekid, mucho karma points for putting forth an effort to try to fix things! 1. You indicate you've tried everything to fix your lagging libido. Have you talked to your ob/gyn? Done any tests on hormone levels? How old are you? Is sex painful? Testosterone cream has been shown to be helpful. Don't waste your money on Avilimil or any homeopathic libido remedies.
2. My wife's accused me of saying hateful things to try to get her to change her mind about sex, but sheesh, nothing I've said even comes close to what your H, Mr. Suave, said to you. One thing my W has said is "Do you think that saying that (or doing that) is going to make my heart melt? No. It just makes me think what a jerk you're being, and I don't want to have sex with a jerk." It took a few dozen times hearing that, but I think I finally got it. I think that you biting your tongue was admirable, but you might just end up with a sore tongue. But, rather than starting a raging argument, have you tried to use humor to defuse the situation? For example, you wrote:
Quote: "I have come to a conclusion..." then paused at which time he said "that you don't want to have sex anymore".
Maybe you could have said: 1.No, but that's not a bad idea. I wish I'd thought of it. 2.Not exactly. Just that I don't want to have sex with YOU. 3.Well, at least not until the scabs fall off. 4.Just not on days ending in "Y" I know, these are really offensive, but said with a smile and a wink, they might catch him off guard, and maybe make him smile.
Also, you said you went to a sex therapist. Why not just a marriage counselor?
Finally, how do you define SSM? How often are you guys doing "it"?
Hairdog, who asks every question for a reason, even if it is for his own prurient interest.
Im pretty much in the same situation as your husband. My wife and I got married one year ago (just had our anniversary, no nookie but thats another sad story).
When we as men go into this venture called marriage, we have the expectation, be it right or wrong, that things are going to be wonderful and the sex will be more plentiful since we are now married and constantly accessable. When that doesn't happen, then we percieve it as a failure on our part. All kinds of things start going on in our heads such as "What did I do wrong", "Does she no longer find me attractive?", "Has she changed her mind?". Then we reach a point where we no longer doubt ourselves as much as we begin to have a constant battle in our hearts and minds about why we did this in the first place. "She bait and switched me", "I should have known", "I feel like a fool". In simple terms . . . . we get bitter and angry becuase things are not the way we thought they would be and there is nothing we can do to change it. Men are "fixers" and you will never understand the personal sense of failure over a situation that we can't correct.
The simple reason behind your husbands comments is that he's bitter, resentful, and hurting more than you can understand. And to a certain extent, you share the responsibility for them. At this point, those comments are the only way that he can "get back" for the hurt. They aren't going to stop until he either gives up completely or the situation gets fixed.
Have him read the book. At a minimum, its going to be some comfort that you have acknowledged there is something wrong and you are trying to do something about it. But you have to demonstrate that you are in fact trying to change. Acknowledging the issue but consistently NOT doing anything only makes it worse.
Thanks to everyone for your replies...I'll take them one at a time.
Tim: I would love to have the type of discussion you described. However, DH is not receptive to this sort of discussion. To him, every time I try to have a talk about my feelings, he shuts down. He throws out something about "all you women watch too much Dawson's Creek" (a direct quote, even though I personally have never watched that television show in my life) and that's the end of the discussion. I find it extremely hard to have a rational discussion with him about this topic. I’d love any ideas on how to start a discussion with him without it degenerating into him trotting out his list of stereotypes regarding women and our behavior.
Also, we are not having kids any time soon. Our financial situation is too precarious right now due to his being out of work for all of 2003. He wants kids sometime but acknowledges that the timing is not right to start a family.
Finally, this will work out. Divorce is not an option due to our religion.
CeMar: I wish I knew what the problem was. I have had successful sexual relationships in the past (and not such successful ones) so I know that there is something there, I just have to find a way to get it back.
Lee: Thanks for the positive reinforcement. That’s why I figure reading the book and putting a plan into place without telling DH about it is the way to go...that way I can get my plan into motion without him telling me all along how it won’t work.
SD: Thanks for your post also. You are totally right, I do enjoy sex when we have it, it’s just getting to the “having it” part that is the problem.
Hairdog: Yes, I’ve talked to my OB/GYN and even gotten a second opinion. Both OBs said it was all in my head and that was the reason for the sex therapist (referral from one OB). I had my primary care doc do a blood thyroid test, that came back normal. I am 33 years old, this whole thing is really starting to piss me off because at one point in time, I was interested in sex. Sex is not painful and like I said to SD, I do enjoy sex when we get around to having it. After reading Chapter 2 of the book, I realize that I have the arousal-desire-release (I think that’s the final word) way of approaching sex which is obviously completely different from DH. I have told him many times that he needs to be the one to initiate because I just don’t have random sexual thoughts like he does. But if he initiates, it is rare that I won’t go along unless I am dead tired.
Oohh..I love your responses. I’m going to use that “do you think what you’re saying makes my heart melt?” one next time I get a comment thrown my way. We’ll see what response I get. Do you need credit? LOL
As far as my definition of SSM, we have sporadic frequency of sex. Sometimes once a week, sometimes once a month or less. Definitely not at all on a schedule that DH would like.
Newlywed1: That is the reason why I am not sharing the book right now. I’ve tried too many other things that haven’t worked so I feel that if I share the book now, he will just cast it aside before I can really digest the whole thing and get a plan into place. But if the time presents itself, I might abandon that plan and share early.
Everyone: Thanks so much for your responses. It is nice to get a male point of view without the negative comments. :-)
