hold on!! - 12

[SunnyB]

U, sorry that it's turned out this way with the kids. From the beginning, telling the kids was the number one issue for me. I avoided it for seven months while we still lived together, only telling them two weeks before S. But we did it together and planned out what to say ahead of time. If it hadn't happened that way I would have been devastated.

As far as child sharing, a court is not going to overrule something you both agree on. My state ages out at 18, so if yours does, you only need to consider the 15 year old as far as a time sharing schedule. S18 can stay where he wants. But even D15 is old enough that she can participate in the decision. My D was 16 when H moved out, and we didn't set a schedule for her. She stays with me full time, has dinner with her dad when they both feel like it. Sad to me, but I'm not going to force more on her, and wisely, neither is STBX.

It's all hard stuff, U, and not what you wanted. But you'll continue to be their rock and that's exactly what they need right now.

[PeterV2]

A piece of advise: If W is earning more than you, you can petition for some spousal support so that you can maintain the same standard of living you had pre-D. That's on top of child support if S18 wants to live with you full time. At least those are the laws in my jurisdiction. Make sure your lawyer gets you all that you deserve.

W will be totally freaked out by that reality if that's the case in your jurisdiction. But hey, what does she expect? She really did choose this without appreciating all the consequences. Time for a bit of reality, a bite of reality.

I don't mean to be spiteful or vengeful, but she made her bed, and now has to sleep in it. You deserve every benefit available to you by law. Don't sell yourself short. This is business. Let the psychologists worry about the emotional parts. The lawyers and accountants need to look out for your best interests going forward.

You will be ok.

[JellyB]

I know weekends are not necessarily your favourite part of the week U. Hope you get some quality U time, so you can exhale. Thinking of you buddy! Take care.JellyB xxx

[Vanilla]

U

How are you and your d15?

V

[u-turn]

Thank you everyone for checking in - I so much appreciate you thinking of me.

I had the conversation with D15 on saturday and it went pretty well - considering. She did not really want to talk much about it, didn't have any questions. She knew this was coming. I comforted her as much as she would allow.

I was having a really hard time on Sunday. I was second guessing myself, hating myself, thinking that I should continue being a martyr (so to speak) to keep my family intact. I was so emotional about all of this again. Everything was kicking me, all of the changes that are taking place, all of the things that I have been trying to erase from my memory and unsee - It was all there again.

logically, I know it is not really the case, but emotionally, I am having a hard time not taking full responsibility for this entire mess. I could have continued this forever, been just as miserable, but left the kids with a whole family.

WW & I sat with the two kids and talked about everything today. She said she wanted to do this today and I agreed. It went as well as can be expected.

Prior to the talk W sat next to me, crying, and said she was sorry for doing this to me, that we were not in great shape before this, but this was all happening because of her decisions and they were all decisions. She understands how I will never forgive her because she cannot forgiver herself. She said she wished she moved out 6 months ago - maybe we would have had a chance then. All this kind of upset me that she was saying this today and I told her that I did not need her to apologize. We spent a little time trying to pull ourselves together before talking to the kids. I really think she may be trying to get me to put the brakes on the D.

We went through all of the points that I wanted to, and she told them a little more that I thought she would. I didn't disagree with just about everything she said. (she did mention how we may still have family time - I didn't want to tell the kids this as I don't really know how all this will work). She also said that she loves me and always will (I couldn't help but to tear up a little when she said that) and she said that I am a great man and great father (sheesh). It actually hurts to hear her say those things about me now.

She was kind of going on and on seemingly to try and get more of a reaction from d15 - and there was not much. S18 said - "look, this is no big surprise, things have been bad for a long time and were not getting any better - something had to give". He is right and I am proud of him for speaking his mind and not being disrespectful.

We are looking for a C for the kids and all of us to talk to - I think this is a good idea. I am going to stop seeing my IC for a while (indefinitely). I figured out a good working budget for everything and I do need to be watch what I spend on myself right now. Maybe again another time - I am allocating the money to kids C for now.

As I calculate it, I should barely be able to buy W out of the house if I can get approved for an equity loan.

Sadly, I am applying for a credit card too. I haven't had one for at least 15 years. But I need to have an emergency plan. Researching for my best option.

Like I have said before, I never really liked dealing with money (great trait of a business owner - eh?) and may be making some bad decisions, but I hope my thoroughness and my ability to over-plan things will help me.

Well - it's been a long weekend (long labor day holiday here).

Onward.

[asitis]

I'm sorry about having to reach the stage where you tell the kids. I'm glad you are getting them some counseling. I'd recommend a Marriage & Family Therapist w/ experience treating the children of divorce. The reason is that they are trained to look at the relational system the individual is enmeshed in, which will be the source of most of your kids' issues.

I hope you consider not discontinuing your IC. Try to find another place to cut the budget, as I think that you'll want the help on handling the kids' behaviors & struggles at least.

There are some interesting developments lately. Not only what I noticed a few days ago in an earlier post, but in what you are reporting here. First, W was admitting responsibility (a bit too much, but better than the other way around) rather than her recent anger and attack for your taking the steps you are. Second, she still feels safe enough to be vulnerable around you and to even make bids for comfort and connection. If she does this again, answer the bids (you don't have to be reassuring or loving, just empathic & understanding). I suspect this is what you did, albeit with some stiffness & distance, which is OK.

Third, she was clearly upset about telling the kids. A lot of WAS/WS go cold & matter-of-fact at such times from what I'm told. The costs are getting to her, and she is not dodging their impact.

I don't think she is done with you yet. Obviously, this doesn't mean change course, as the positive signs seem to be a result of your path. But, unless you have decided you are done, you might want to not rush things on the D ahead too fast. See where she goes from here. She is off-balance, thinking, and feeling. You are going, and she is losing you, and she's discovering that it hurts to lose you and her family (at least that's what I'm seeing coming through).

The kids are going to need some one-on-one time with you, as well as together time as a trio. They need to be able to know that you are there for them, and they can come to you. Something fun, that they really enjoy. Don't view it as compensatory guilt, but as your time to re-secure those relationships. Even though your S18 is being practical and reasonable and thoughtful, he needs the security of his bond to you, and I can guarantee you that he is hurting more than he is letting on with his public face.

I don't know how to say that I feel for you and your family in a way that conveys this authentically over the internet, but you are in my thoughts.

[Vanilla]

U

I think this went well. Only minor observation let WW feel the full impact, validate don't soothe.

The next couple of weeks are important, so much checking in with your kids. You know it's ok to say "dad needs a hug at the moment".

And remember 100% of what they say, 50% of what they do.

Oh and big big hug from your friend

V

[u-turn]

I wanted to go back in time a little and respond to some of the great help that y'all have been offering me. Thank you so much.

A piece of advise: If W is earning more than you, you can petition for some spousal support so that you can maintain the same standard of living you had pre-D. That's on top of child support if S18 wants to live with you full time. At least those are the laws in my jurisdiction. Make sure your lawyer gets you all that you deserve.

W will be totally freaked out by that reality if that's the case in your jurisdiction. But hey, what does she expect? She really did choose this without appreciating all the consequences. Time for a bit of reality, a bite of reality.

I don't mean to be spiteful or vengeful, but she made her bed, and now has to sleep in it. You deserve every benefit available to you by law. Don't sell yourself short. This is business. Let the psychologists worry about the emotional parts. The lawyers and accountants need to look out for your best interests going forward.

You will be ok.

Peter - I appreciate you being open about your past financial situation with your D. It sounds as though you certainly got the short end of the stick with that one. It does make me think that I need to treat this as a complete business transaction and try to remove my feelings and stifle my current feelings that keep creeping up that I want to give her comfort over my own. We certainly do not have as much to divide, but it is all relative I guess.

She is putting herself out by moving without fighting, I don't think she intends on taking much from the house, she's borrowing money from her own 401k to purchase some things (her place doesn't have appliances).

I feel like this D will put us both back a decade. With my feelings about money, I feel like I am ok starting over - I am sad that I may not be able to give my kids what I wanted to or planned to. Maybe I will recover more quickly than I think. I did work with my fin adviser at school to make my retirement account more aggressive so hopefully some day I can retire. I never set anything up while I was only running my business as we seemingly needed every penny I made and later when I started teaching, I played it very safe and didn't add much. I am hoping it is not too late for me.

Thanks Peter

Sunny - thank you for your insight

As far as child sharing, a court is not going to overrule something you both agree on. My state ages out at 18, so if yours does, you only need to consider the 15 year old as far as a time sharing schedule. S18 can stay where he wants. But even D15 is old enough that she can participate in the decision. My D was 16 when H moved out, and we didn't set a schedule for her. She stays with me full time, has dinner with her dad when they both feel like it. Sad to me, but I'm not going to force more on her, and wisely, neither is STBX.

I do believe this is true - WW seems to think that the courts will not give me the time that I want. W seems to know that S18 is going to do whatever he wants and should be allowed to. D15 will be shared time and it seems that she will not fight me on the equality of it. I really think we can put together a timeline that can be agreeable by all.

I still think that W has not intention on getting a L but it is to be seen when this moves further along. I don't know if she has been served yet even and the initial court date is quickly approaching on Oct 1.


-

more to come

[u-turn]

Vanilla & Jelly - you are like the tag-team of care and love. Thank you for your help and I know that I have said this a hundred times here, I really don't want to mess things up for D15 more than I already have.

She didn't go to school today - was sick which could be many things (time of month, poor eating with friends, lack of sleep with friends over the weekend, to much dairy, crumbling family). She seemed better tonight when I came home and she ate dinner ok. She is not talking too much though - I don't want to pressure her and she knows I am here for her. I do hear her giggling on the phone with friends in her bedroom right now. That makes me feel good.

I may need to get with S21 on my own as W doesn't want to take this as any kind of priority. She has sort of written him off at times, but I feel like he is owed the same level of attention with this matter even though he doesn't live here.

I think this went well. Only minor observation let WW feel the full impact, validate don't soothe.

The next couple of weeks are important, so much checking in with your kids. You know it's ok to say "dad needs a hug at the moment".

And remember 100% of what they say, 50% of what they do.

Oh and big big hug from your friend

V

I think I need to really try for this - I found myself easily slipping into my old fix-it, comforting, it's all my fault mode. I don't think I validated very well through this, she was asking me what I was thinking like she used to, she was sitting next to me like she used to. It was really hard for me. I did tear up (which is not what I wanted to do - I feel this was a failure).

remember 100% of what they say, 50% of what they do - I really needed that, I almost forget that I am still in this - it's almost like I have given up and DBing doesn't matter. She still knows how to get to me - it could be a game, it could be completely genuine - I don't know and maybe it doesn't matter at this point.

Sadly, I didn't sleep at all last night and my emotional state got even worse, by this morning I could hardly stop crying about this. When W came into the kitchen as I was making lunches, she saw that I was upset and she asked what was wrong - I completely lost it and had to walk away - she started crying too. What a mess - I apologized to her for this later. I told her that I didn't mean for that to happen.

This morning felt like a morning from a year ago though I recognize it now and have recovered - still very sad about all of this, but have regained my composure.

So what I feel she learned about me today, I am still human, I still have emotion, I still care, I know I am destroying my family and she knows it hurts me. All of this is true and I don't necessarily think it is a bad thing that she knows this. It doesn't change the path, but does let her know that I am not dead inside (I don't know if this makes sense).

Thank you friends
Peace

[u-turn]

Asitis - thank you
I feel like this was another flaming hurdle to jump, and we survived. I think we found a marriage and family therapist that specializes in working with older children and divorce. I am hoping that we can be fit in soon - I really think it is imperative that this happens for D15 and even tough-guy S18.

I am considering discontinuing my IC for cost alone. It is expensive, I think I may have maxed out our insurance on this, and I am having to change my insurance too. I am going this week and did not text her to tell her that I was thinking of stopping.

After my breakdown this morning, I am reconsidering this stance though.

I do know that there are things to see here with W. We are actually talking a little more than we have been able to in a long time.

I was not expecting her to talk about us at all and wasn't really prepared for it. I did tell her that I did not need an apology and when she spoke about forgiveness, I said that this is not about forgiveness.

I wanted to tell her that I have already forgiven her - which is true. But is of little value to her. I didn't say it though.

When she told me that she wished she moved out 6 months ago - we might have had a chance. I said that this might be true. (I completely agree with this, and I asked her to leave but she wouldn't).

I don't really even know how to slow this down or change the course at this time. The initial court date is set, she has rented a place, there are timelines on the legal system - I feel as if there is no turning back even if I wanted to.

I have not shown that I want to back down - and before this emotional weekend, I have not felt it either. But it was a really rough weekend that I could just fix by giving in.

I need to collect my wits again, regroup, be strong in my resolve.

Compensatory guilt - I get this. I have been really careful not to overdue things with them - I want them be assured that I am genuine - I don't think that they have ever had issue with this, but this conversation and my actions against the family could be a game changer for them.

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts!!