Dinner's ready, on the table, W is just about ready to sit down and eat. OM calls on W's cell. W takes call, and goes outside to speak to him in private for 20 minutes. Lots of giggling and laughing. Very hard for me, but I sit down on the sofa, turn on the TV, and just let it go. W comes in, we eat dinner and watch TV. She is mostly quiet. After dinner she starts to communicate a little, but is still removed and distant. She gives herself a pedicure and--probably against good DBing and giving her space--I draw myself a hot bath and plop down in the bathroom with her. After talking to myself goofily for a few minutes--about my reflection in the tub drain, Dolly Parton's Islands in the Stream, my toes getting pruny--she finally starts to open up a little.
She talks a bunch about OM--mostly minor stuff I've already heard many times, I listen, I'm just happy she's talking. She talks about some things (concerts and events) they are planning to do together. She talks about her job a lot too, how it drags on her and why, what she wants but isn't sure how to achieve. She also talks about her and I some too. She says my changes are obvious, and its wierd for her: why now? why did it have to take so much and so long for me to change? She feels like she's already moved on and wanting to focus on herself and a new life, and now all the sudden my behavior is the way it should have been a long time ago. She says sometimes she comes home and just wants to be by herself and think about things, and that she can't do that if I'm home all the time. I try not to be defensive about this, but I say I've been able to find plenty of time to think the three or four nights a week that she is at OM's. She feels that between her work, OM, and me, she doesn't have any time for herself.
She says she's well aware of where I stand and how I feel, and that while she doesn't feel that I'm pressuring her, she can sometimes sense my anxiousness, and it makes her uncomfortable. She feels I'm sometimes a little too eager to take up opportunities to talk about us. She accepts that she had some responsibilty in how things fell apart. I tell her that of course I'd prefer us to get back together, but my first priority is her happiness, no matter what. She believes that I am concerned for her happiness and that I care about her, but she's not so sure it equally applies if we don't get back together. I tell her I don't know what I can do to reassure her, and she seems to understand.
I tell her that if--and that I know that its a big if--we were to get back together, its to build a brand new R from scratch. Neither of us want to go back to the way things were. She reiterates that during this time we are separated I am completely free to do whatever I want to do. I respond that I am doing what I want to do, I'm happy with the choices I've made. I tell her I am sorry if it seems sometimes that I'm too forward about how I feel, and I don't want to seem like I'm obsessing about us, but I don't want to go back to how I was when I suppressed everything I felt. She says she understands that. I also tell her there's tons of things I feel and would love to talk about, but that I don't because I know it makes her uncomfortable.
She also wants to know more about me: what I talk about in my C sessions, what I've been reading, what I've been learning about relationships. We talk for awhile about this. I tell her some of the books I've read, some of what I've learned about healthy relationships, how my C feels there's nothing stopping me from being a solid partner in a healthy R. I tell her my C sessions are not about her and I, but more about life coaching for me. I eventually end up telling her--I want to share so much with her, but I know there's so much I just can't tell her right now--that I've been participating in an internet discussion board where the participants talk about relationships, mostly in relation to books and articles that are read and discussed. I didn't tell her anything specific about this board. I wish I could share everything about me with her, but I don't want to do anything to jeopardize the one place I have to express myself freely and completely, I don't want her coming here to read my posts and coming away with the wrong idea or using it against me.
We even talked some about my father's affair. When I told her my Mom and I were comparing my sitch to my father's affair, she immediatley defended herself saying she wasn't having an affair. I said that wasn't what I meant at all, just that my mom and I were talking about it. I told her how my father met another woman, then separated from my mother and moved in with the OW, telling my mom he just didn't have feelings for her anymore. I told her how my mom during this time told my father that she would take my sister and I and vanish for good if he ever brought OW by our house, or if he ever took my sister and I to see OW. My father did eventually break it off with OW and move home after a year or so, but he committed suicide shortly after that (if anyone was wondering, don't worry, this has never crossed my mind, I'm just not the type, I love life way too much, but sometimes I wonder if W reads too much into my father's effects on me)
She talked more about her job for awhile after all of this, and we didn't get to sleep until after 3 am. I know I can't stay up like this all the time, but sometimes the only time she opens up is late at night.
Overall we again maintained a very good rapport, we conversed well, but I feel I'm slipping on my detachment again. I'm probably not detaching enough, I probably am a little too obvious about my feelings, I'm probably jumping too much at opportunities to spend time with her. On the other side of the coin, I strongly feel that generally the time we spend together brings us closer together, and that time apart just makes us more apart.
She's going to her parents up north for Easter weekend. I think this may be a good time for me to regroup, readdress my priorities, my goals, etecetera. I actually feel like I could usse a little time to myself, and I'm actually glad she'll be spending some time away from both OM and I.
Quote: She says she's well aware of where I stand and how I feel, and that while she doesn't feel that I'm pressuring her, she can sometimes sense my anxiousness, and it makes her uncomfortable. She feels I'm sometimes a little too eager to take up opportunities to talk about us.
What would happen if you were to pull a 180 and let her see that you mean it? Do you think it might encourage her to pursue you?
Just a thought.
Bets
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Betsey, I think I follow you. Are you saying I need to purposely not try to talk about us, or my feelings for her? Try and end these convos before they start? Is this what you're saying? I ask because I am a man, and therefore necessarily a little slow and dense about these sort of things.
Quote: She gave you a wealth of information to work with. Do you have a game plan now that she's done that?
I plan to use some time this weekend to review my goals, progress, and plans, BUT I could definitely use input. I posted over on Wiley's thread asking him to come over and take a look. If anyone else has any general advice or pointers I should consider in my planning session, try to let me know soon.
Nitaf, I will try to stop by your thread soon.
INTERESTING UPDATE...
Soooo, then there's last night...
I come home from work intending to change clothes quickly and go for a run in the park since the weather is so nice. W is home in her pj's over the steamer because her sinsues are clogged. She is friendly and chatty, but obviously in a little bit of pain. We talk for a few, I change and dash off. She is in bed when I return so I let her alone for a little while. When she gets up we hang for a bit, her showing me the gifts she got that we are giving to her niece and nephew for their Bdays. W thinks she wants to go to the gym before dinner, but is also tired and not sure she should go. She vascillates several times between the two choices--literally walking back and forth in the hallway between the bedroom and the closet each time she changes her mind. This makes me smile to no end. She finally decides on going.
When she returns we eat dinner and watch TV. She is very warm and friendly. This is very different from her behavior in the morning when she appeared to be avoiding me. At one point we are out on the porch talking and I realize I'm in the process of sharing my feelings again and she's listening very pleasantly but also has a sort of TMI look going on. I stop and apologize and say I should wear a little blinking red light to let me know when I'm opening up too much. She laughs a little and says lets go back inside and watch TV.
Back out on the porch again later we hear our neighbor playing some music which we both like. I ask him who it is and tell W I'll get it for her tomorrow for her Friday drive (and I do pick it for her up at lunch today). Then we are talking about a CD of hers that skips a little that she wants ot replace. I say well let me have the one that skips because the songs on it that I like don't skip. She says, "What?!? Ohmigosh, you like said CD?" She is pokes at fun me then because this is a musician I used to make fun of her for listening to over and over, and used to complain about. I say well yes, I like tracks so and so, would you like to go in and listen to them? She agrees. We go in and while I am putting on the CD she lies down on the couch. I come over and ask if she can make room for me and she says, "No," then moves over and makes room for me, and says, "you asked." I remember clearly now an instance in MC where she said she doesn't always like to be asked, she expects me to know. And I remember we had talked just a few days ago about how when we met she was obviously interested in me but didn't pursue me because she wanted me to do the pursuing. I can't read her mind on where she is with things these days, and I know how bad pursual can be when you're DBing, so this makes my sitch even more complicated--but better at the same time?
I lay down on the couch and we are lying opposite each other with her feet up on my shoulders just like last week. She and I are singing along to the music with each other, tapping out rhythms, I massaging her feet. AND, occasionally she looks right at me while she is singing the lyrics--of what are mostly love songs! WOW. I am beside myself with glee and working overtime not to let too much of it show. After we finish listening to the CD we both agree that we are tired and decide to go to bed.
Up and down and up and down and up the roller coaster goes.
...post scriptum...
for those of you who may be interested in the soundtrack to Renew's soap opera...
the CD we were listening to was Jewel's 0304 tracks 5 & 6 plus a few others.
some of the the CD's I bought today were Elliott Smith, (the new) Zero7, and Belle & Sebastian.
Other pertinent listening includes Dido, the Shins, Garbage, Thievery Corporation, The Flaming Lips, New Order, Butterfly Boucher, and Thomas Tallis' Spem in Alium.
I love Jewell, although I do feel a bit dorkey liking her. My song to my H is "You Were Meant for Me." Before we got together, I thought of him whenever I heard that song. Come on, they are perfect songs to listen to when you are down in a R. "Don't," "Foolish Games," and "Near You Always." Perfect to bring down your PMA.
Good stop on the "talking too much." Perhaps next time, you should just stop talking, trail off. Leave her to wonder. Then say, I'd rather not share with you. Do you think this will cause her to distance? If so, tell me to shut up.
The reason I say this is that when you explain you are opening too much, she realizes it is because of constraints she has put on you, and she has control. Another way of you pursuing her, and she will see it as that. If she hadn't told you it made her uncomfortable, you wouldn't be doing it. I'm just afraid, dear Renew, that you may become too wishy washy and not remain masculine enough for DW. There's a point of doing nice things for another you care about, and then there's the point of doing everything for her because you are her slave and have no self esteem. I don't think you come off like this, I am just naming the two extremes and saying that you should make sure you are in a happy medium. Not too weak, not too strong and untouchable.
I think the pursuit is different for men and women. In my sitch, H did the pursuing in the beginning. He likes the pursuit. I am trying to come up with ways for him to pursue me. In your sitch, W already knows you want her. You've made that abundantely clear. You did pursue her once already. I am not saying let go. (One of my requirements for my man is that he would fight for me. I will not consider being with a man who would not.) But I don't think you have to worry about pursuing her the way you used to in the beginning of your R. Instead, let it happen naturally.
Quote: AND, occasionally she looks right at me while she is singing the lyrics--of what are mostly love ssongs!
VERY nice. I think I see a lot of your W coming around to you subconsciously. She doesn't come right out and say she loves you and wants you in her life, but she is reluctant to let you go (living there still and hanging around with you) and she slips up (perhaps unconscious slip ups) occasionally and full on comes on to you. I would count this as a babystep.
You know, thinking back, I am beginning to realize that DB is largely about helping S to feel more in control of themselves, and less in control of us. (With ourselves being more in control of ourselves.)
WOW. I am beside myself with glee and working overtime not to let too much of it show. After we finish listening to the CD we both agree that we are tired and decide to go to bed.