underdog is right, nobody wants a "pity rub". One time, I faked a bad back so when I dropped d off, I asked ex if he could press down on my spot. I screwed up my tailbone while giving birth to d, so he knows the spot. He just gave me this look, he did it, but no heart was in it.
Rottzilla, Betsey, Anita, thanks for the advice, I think it probably is best for me to be witholding on the physical touch for awhile. I had in the past been guilty of withholding and setting boundaries on PT, but think I've successfully 180'd and been clear in the past few months that I'm very available for it. So for now, I think not offering is another 180 back the other way, and I'm going to go very light on initiating, hoping she tries harder to intiate. Does that make any sense?
W stayed home last night. Saw her briefly at the house around 8:30 as we crossed paths to and from the gym. She started saying stuff about how OM has issues, about how she didn't want to make the same mistake twice (but that this had nothing to do with me). She was in a rush to get to the gym, and I told her we could talk when she got back. She seemed eager to talk when she got back, but I was still making dinner and so she went upstairs to put some dry clothes on. We sat down to eat and she didn't turn on the TV like she usually might. I asked her if she wanted to tell me about what she had mentioned earlier...
W's Concerns About OM (several of which inter-relate): 1. OM generally appears to have gotten over most recent XGF, but does not appear to have dealt with how the relationship impacted him. There was the episode where he met XGF at a bar recently, there is his defensiveness trying to justify why he stayed in the relationship for so long, and there is the recent episode where he brought out a whole shoebox of pictures of XGF to shoe W (which really kind of wierded her out). 2. OM is overly concerned about their time together. He feels like he doesn't get to spend enough time with her (mostly because of his retail management style work schedule, but he also seems to hint at W needing to make more time for him). 3. OM is getting emotionally attached to W (and her and I both actually acknowledged that he probably has already been for some time now), but W just wants to take things slowly, still just wants to get to know him. She feels like he is starting to get anxious and nervous about their relationship. 4. OM is getting occasionally defensive, acting like he feels W is criticizing him. A few eaxamples: her leaving him behind in the 10k, her trying to encourage him to eat healthier and go to the gym more often. 5. OM asks about me a lot, wants to always know how he is and is not like me. W says she really doesn't want to tell him a lot about me, but he keeps asking. OM still appears very intimidated by my presence in her life, my history with W, the time I still get to spend with her, the connection we still have, my "attractiveness." He appears to worry a lot that she and I may get back together, that he might just be her fall guy. She said she tries to assure him that if that becomes the case she would tell him right away. 6. OM has lately gotten short and ready to change the subject when W mentions something she did with me, like when she eats dinner with me, or when she goes to the gym with me. 7. Lastly, in relation to W not wanting to make the "same mistake twice," she doesn't want to get into the position again of being overly relational, she seems to finally realize that she needs to be able to take of herself to be part of a healthy relationship. I was very impressed and encouraged that she was able to say this, that she was able to also admit that she knows she had focused too much of her energy on trying to make me happy and had not taken care of her own happiness.
W also feels like she is sometimes yo-yo-ing between OM and I, trying to make sure that she doesn't hurt either of our feelings. I did my best to reassure her that I was fine and that she didn't need to worry about me. I think she believes me. She also asked again--this has come up several times--if I had any idea why I had behaved the way I did when I became self-absorbed in graduate school. I told her there probably a number of reasons, that I couldn't really pin it on any one thing, but that most importantly I'd realized how to fix it. I explained to her that the most important thing to me was that I had healed and changed my behavior and was moving on. I told her that even though I couldn't remember all the specific instances where I behaved badly with her, I was well aware that I had hurt her repeatedly. I told her that even though I hadn't behaved with love towards her, I'd always loved her. She started to look on the edge of tearing up at this point, so I reiterated that all I wanted was for her to be happy, that i really did care about her, and that the best thing for us to do is to move forward.
Overall we had really excellent communication, there was no tension or discomfort at any time. I felt like she was being very open and forthcoming, and that she really appreciated me being a good listener. I truly feel that my being able to listen to her talk about OM, and just be a good listener, draws us closer together, is a very good thing for us. And he definitely appears to have trouble hearing about me. She also said that she liked that she felt no pressure from me about our relationship, she said that one of the major reasons she was able to handle me living with her through this was that I wasn't pressuring her about us.
Even though she contradicted herself a few times, and there was a little alien behavior, I definitely think there were babysteps in last nights convo. It certainly appears she values my emotional availability for her. Maybe my getting a life and dropping the rope is having benefit too? Anyone agree? Disagree?
BTW, this morning she was spread out on top of her covers asleep on her back in a pair of briefs and a loose sweater halfway up her torso. It took a LOT of Herculean self control on my part to not walk into her room, to instead just wish her a good day and leave, but I did it. Whew.
WOW Renew, more babysteps, I agree. More good stuff. I think distancing in your sitch will only relieve the pressure W is feeling.
Good job listening and validating.
OM is uneasy for a reason. Whether because of his lack of self esteem or because HE HAS SOMETHING TO FEAR. OK, that was nasty, I'm sure he is a nice guy. But your W must tell him things that make him uneasy and it is becoming internalized and eating away at him. He is doing the unattractive pursuing.
And, when your W begins to work on making herself happy, is she really going to want to be with a whiny, sniveling worm?
(Again, I apologize for being nasty. Not having the best day.) But, hey, he is showing his true colors, give him some more rope. I smell a hanging.
Quote: W also feels like she is sometimes yo-yo-ing between OM and I, trying to make sure that she doesn't hurt either of our feelings. I did my best to reassure her that I was fine and that she didn't need to worry about me. I think she believes me.
Does she believe you? If so, good for you, you did a good job of convincing. Or, does she believe, like my H, that you WANT her to think that, but it's not true? This is where detachment will come in really handy now. She doesn't want to hurt you, so don't let her. I am thinking that you can't hurt stone, but then again, you can't love it either. So, what's resistant to being hurt, but still able to absorb love? Maybe a big lion... Arrows bounce off of his thick skin, but his mane is so cuddly and soft. (OK, little sleep again last night, sorry.) I'm just trying to say that, again, it's important to be soft and yielding emotionally but not weak and pursuing.
I do think that listening is drawing you closer. She has said it in her own words... your behavior has allowed her to stay in the house with you, and she obviously is feeling emotional attachment to you - she comes to you every time she needs a shoulder to cry on.
Rottzilla, Seattle, thanks for your encouraging posts!
Quote: So, what's resistant to being hurt, but still able to absorb love? Maybe a big lion... Arrows bounce off of his thick skin, but his mane is so cuddly and soft.
I like that analogy. I will do my best to be lion-like! Maybe our fluffy little orange persian can give me some lessons tonight, W is always saying how he looks like a lion.
I actually decided to go ahead and check my cainercast since so many others have. Lo and behold look what it says...
Quote: The implication here is of order and symmetry, perfect energy encouraging an ideal outcome. Mars, the power planet, is working in harmony with Saturn, your ruler, to ensure that a long-held ambition is finally realised. Explore your greatest hope. Nurture your dearest dreams. Work hard and choose wisely. You really can make a difference. You really can turn a corner.
I can certainly hope!
Well, I'm off. I need to eat some dinner and then come back here and work late.
Quick read through here. Thanks again for stopping by.
I would say you are way detached. I could not do what you are doing at this point, having her in the house, talking about OM, but I guess we must do for love what we can.
Your ability to listen and validate and not pressure is tremendous and something we all hope we can strive for.
Quote: I think distancing in your sitch will only relieve the pressure W is feeling.
I would say you are well on the way and I think you are seeing results.
I like what you said about always loving her, though you did not always act loving.
Yes, yes, and yes. We must behave with love, we must do what we can, and we can usually do more than we think we can. We may not always get it back, but we can always give it.
OK, that was nasty, I'm sure he is a nice guy. But your W must tell him things that make him uneasy and it is becoming internalized and eating away at him. He is doing the unattractive pursuing.
