Rj2, you make sme good points. I will try to address that soon in another post.
I can say without any hesitation that what I have been doing for the past few months--and still am doing to the best of my ability--has been THE hardest thing I've ever done, EVER. It makes graduate school look like wading in the kiddie pool. It makes my back surgery look like a paper cut. Being my W's best friend, being happy for her, supporting her, giving her my full attention, loving her unconditionally, taking care of all the regular household stuff... and all while she is dating another man... nothing else in my life even comes close to comparing to the way this strains my heart and soul every day. I just had to get that out, it was eating me up. That said, things are about the same give or take...
I returned home last night. W called me on the cellphone as I was about an hour away to say that she was going to OM's place to watch movies but would return home later, maybe around 8 or 9. She calls again closer to 11:00 to say she's on her way and is hungry, so I fixed us dinner. We had a nice evening together.
I had taken today off from work so I could run errands and stuff, so I was free to hang out with W until she went to work. Morning started with her massage, but after an hour of massage she started to get a little cranky... "I can't get out of bed when you keep giving me massages in the morning...it puts me right back to sleep... I need to wake up on my own... you need to stop invading my space and hovering around my bed every morning..." Um, ok.
So I got out the cat toys and took the cat downstairs to play and let her wake up on her own. I had some coffee and did some laundry, and she eventually got up and came downstairs. After that she seemed to be fine and we hung out and talked about lots of stuff for several hours. Nothing earthshattering, but some parts were interesting. For instance we were talking aobut where to put some china my grandmother had given me, and she started talking about where would be the best place in the house for us to display it--then she started backtracking when she all the sudden realized we still didn't know how long I was going to be living there. Oh well. Nonetheless our rapport was very good, with lots of REALLY good eye contact.
Plz excuse any spelling mistakes above--I'm typing really fast. I've got to run now or I'll miss my concert, I'll try and update more later. BTW, W can't make the concert because she's too busy at work right now.
It seems every time I go waay for more than a day the walls start to go back up, and my PMA plummets. I'm hanging in there though. As I've seen elsewhere on the board... "Anything worth having is worth working hard for."
Actually, Renew, I think it's good she got cranky. You obviously haven't been invading her physical space or she wouldn't have been putting herself in a position to get massages from you. Instead, I am of the belief that she probably felt you invaded her emotional space.
A little too close for comfort? Was she feeling something that made her a bit uncomfortable?
When my H touches my hand and then recoils, or looks in my eyes and then recoils before kissing me, it's bittersweet. On the one hand, I swear I see old emotions surfacing. On the other, WHAT THE HECK ARE THEY THINKING?
I am of the opinion you have seen some of Michael's (my H) famous backtracking W/H is a snake and I am afraid of being bitten behavior.
Sorry if I am wrong, but our sitch's mirror each other so often, and that's what I keep experiencing now. H is so close, then pulls WAY away and gets cranky. The good news is, it usually is followed by a really GOOD closeness next as long as I don't get my stupid panties in a bunch worrying about when and how and how long...
Rottzilla, thanks for the post. Our sitch's do mirror each other often, and your point of view has come in handy more times than I can count.
Quote: I am of the belief that she probably felt you invaded her emotional space.
You know, I was actually beginning to wonder if it was something like that. I think you could very well be right. I was wondering if maybe she was starting to feel a little too cozy--because she certainly seemed cozy for a while there--and that made her nervous. I guess I should back off a little on the physical touch for now. So my plan for tomorrow morning is no massage, no wake up call. I'll just get up, get ready, and leave I guess. We'll see.
Rottzilla, I think you were right on the money. Last night we were watching tv together, and I had automatically started to reach over and massage her back. Before even 15 seconds had passed, I caught myself and stopped. Not more than 15 minutes later she mentioned that her calfs hurt from running. I asked her if I may massage her calfs for her and she plopped 'em right up on my lap w/o any hesitation. I played it safe this morning though, just got ready and left, telling her to have a good day on my way out.
Quote: Rottzilla, I think you were right on the money.
AWESOME!
I think my H is going through the same things right now. He is very uncomfortable with looking into my eyes. I think I have been too pushy. Giving him kisses in the morning and trying to find ways for him to hold my hand. Even after my admonishment yesterday by Betsey, I still did it a few times -tried to subject him to my will.
It's going to be hard now, but I think we both have to let them come to us. We are so close and having such a great time with them as friends, it's difficult to believe they aren't feeling anything for us. But I wonder if they are. Perhaps they still have that wall up and even are blocking their feelings from themselves. Then, when this foreign, alien emotion comes up on them, they are confused and scared because they don't recognize it through the haze and fog that has surrounded their thinking.
It's like one of my old journal entries. I came home from work and H gave me a long, warm hug. Held me and talked to me. I went to do dishes, he came in and gave me another hug, and a kiss on top of the head. He smiled, joked, etc. Just a few minutes later, literally, I went into the bedroom and gave him a hug. His arms hung at his side and I felt cold. It was infuriating. But I learned my lesson. He always iniatiates contact now, except for the kisses I was giving him. Going to stop those now.
Still, you are in a really good place... have a wonderful day! Meow.
renew-still can't believe how strong you have been. It's like you two are all cozy and she has you doing everything for her plus she gets her OM. Now don't get me wrong, I just re-read your stich and you do everything for her, maybe a little too much, like when you invaded her space in the a.m. She snapps at you in the a.m. for the massage but then oh my calf hurts and you quickly offer her a massage and there goes her leg in your lap for a massage. She is with OM and tells you and then says she is hungry and upon arrival you make dinner for her. You are really bending over backwards--I think a little too far. I would back off on the massages for a while--have you ever gotten one from her. I think and its only my opinion, she is taking advantage of you. Any signs of her leaving OM? I think she needs to start doing things on her own. I would feel cozy if you did all that stuff with me and you didn't get mad when I spoke about OM.
Betsey, no, thank you, you've got me laughing so hard today my face hurts.
Rj2...
Quote: What are some of the things you did/ways you acted before you and W were "officially together"?
This one's a little tough as W and I were pretty much an item w/in a week of meeting, I mean we connected right away and knew it. But I could probably outline some behavior that characterized our early stages together... --an almost complete disregard for time (the only time that mattered was the time we spent together). --playfullness and an unconscious expectation that fun would happen when we were together. --QT: we would sit around in each other's arms and talk for hours aobut anything. --AOS: She would make me dinner, and I would bring her a bottle of wine. --I don't think either of us ever did much of getting all prettied up for the other during those early days, we would just hang out at her apartment in our pajamas.
I've been trying to make more of these things happen, and have had some success. Also, in the area of physical attraction, I've dropped quite a bit of weight since last fall, and I've been paying much more attention to clothes and grooming (she's allergic to many perfumes and colognes, so that one's kind of out). It's payed off. Not only has she noticed and commented, but OM is actually intimidated by my appearance, going so far as to say to her that he thinks I look like a GQ model, which makes both W and I laugh quite heartily.
Rottzilla, Thanks for the meow! I was thinking some more about the door analogy, and I'm wondering if I need to take a tiny step backward, and see what kind of contact she might initiate. Anita, I think this goes hand in hand with what you said. No, I haven't gotten any massages from her yet, but I've also been a little afraid to ask. I tend to think there may be a little bit of drawing away from OM on her part, but it's been very very subtle from my point of view. And I really do need to see her draw away from him some, for me to feel like we're going to make progress beyond the current state of affairs.
I can't remember if i've gone into this in a previous post but here's the thing... W felt for years that I ignored her requests to spend time with her, going off and doing my own thing w/o considering her. W also strongly feels that I set LOTS of boundaries on our time together, that I would say things like, "I will do this... I won't do that... I will only do such and such for you between 7 and 8 pm," etcetera. I won't deny her complaints, many of them are based in truth. I had some control issues.
As a result, much of my doing-what-works-behavior has been to make myself completely available for her, unconditionally. I'm certain it's been a major factor in the improvements between us, and so I'm awfully nervous about changing that behavior. I do want to draw her in, though. I desperately want her to initiate some kind of physical touch between us. But I don't want to do anything--either by error or omission--that would lead her to believe I was returning to my old ways. I also don't want to appear--like OM has started to--that I am nervous about losing her. I'm a little on eggshells about all of this, and I could really use more advice.
Quote: This one's a little tough as W and I were pretty much an item w/in a week of meeting, I mean we connected right away and knew it. But I could probably outline some behavior that characterized our early stages together... --an almost complete disregard for time (the only time that mattered was the time we spent together). --playfullness and an unconscious expectation that fun would happen when we were together. --QT: we would sit around in each other's arms and talk for hours aobut anything. --AOS: She would make me dinner, and I would bring her a bottle of wine. --I don't think either of us ever did much of getting all prettied up for the other during those early days, we would just hang out at her apartment in our pajamas.
I have been trying to think about "us" in the beginning of our R and THIS is it. This is EXACTLY what we were like. Thanks again Renew. Whenever I am in a fog and can't think back to those times (am I blocking?), you put it so succinctly that it just hits me. I remember just talking and talking and talking and time standing still for us.
Quote: As a result, much of my doing-what-works-behavior has been to make myself completely available for her, unconditionally. I'm certain it's been a major factor in the improvements between us, and so I'm awfully nervous about changing that behavior. I do want to draw her in, though. I desperately want her to initiate some kind of physical touch between us. But I don't want to do anything--either by error or omission--that would lead her to believe I was returning to my old ways. I also don't want to appear--like OM has started to--that I am nervous about losing her. I'm a little on eggshells about all of this, and I could really use more advice.
I also feel as if I am doing too much for H, and I caught myself almost feeling resentful last night as he asked me to stop on my way home to pick up his shampoo. We live 5 minutes from the store, and I was tired from working and going to school all day... but I think you are right for continuing doing things for her. It seems to be working.
Thought... As I have read in other threads, do you think it's slightly possible that she could be using OM at this point as a way to get you to keep doing these things for her? Even subconsciously?
Do you guys drink? H and I don't (or didn't) regularly. But lately, it seems our biggest baby steps have come after he's had a few.
Glad you're back. 